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calvinlooi Senior	31-Oct-2017 15:04        calvinlooi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	No lah, the thing he ask that - those share in SGD drop is because USD up, HK land share is in USD, why drop? Jimboy      ( Date: 31-Oct-2017 14:59) Posted: Don' t think so leh...because bulk of the Investment Properties of HK Land are in HKD (pegged to USD) and just these assets alone, its value is way above HK Land' s mar cap already...... HK Land' s share price has been trading between USD 7.2 to 7.8ish range since late March 27 this year.  It has been go up and down like yo-yo repetitively for a few times already.  Looks like the market oollectively thinks that this is the right trading range given the information we have so far and people buy/sell collective accordingly. Would this  range bound trade continue until there are new news significant enough to signal which direction for the market to go from here? Still scratching my head for an answer. Good trading!   investshare      ( Date: 31-Oct-2017 09:08) Posted: USD appreciate, so non US asset price in USD drop, this share price in USD drop?
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Jimboy Member	31-Oct-2017 14:59        Jimboy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Don' t think so leh...because bulk of the Investment Properties of HK Land are in HKD (pegged to USD) and just these assets alone, its value is way above HK Land' s mar cap already...... HK Land' s share price has been trading between USD 7.2 to 7.8ish range since late March 27 this year.  It has been go up and down like yo-yo repetitively for a few times already.  Looks like the market oollectively thinks that this is the right trading range given the information we have so far and people buy/sell collective accordingly. Would this  range bound trade continue until there are new news significant enough to signal which direction for the market to go from here? Still scratching my head for an answer. Good trading!   investshare      ( Date: 31-Oct-2017 09:08) Posted: USD appreciate, so non US asset price in USD drop, this share price in USD drop?
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investshare Supreme	31-Oct-2017 12:22        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Even though HK Land quoted in USD, their asset are not in US. When USD appreciate against local currency, the asset price in local currency does not change, thus it drop in USD term. subaru      ( Date: 31-Oct-2017 10:02) Posted: don' t get the meaning, can explain? investshare      ( Date: 31-Oct-2017 09:08) Posted: USD appreciate, so non US asset price in USD drop, this share price in USD drop?
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subaru Senior	31-Oct-2017 10:02        subaru About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	don' t get the meaning, can explain? investshare      ( Date: 31-Oct-2017 09:08) Posted: USD appreciate, so non US asset price in USD drop, this share price in USD drop?
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investshare Supreme	31-Oct-2017 09:08        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	USD appreciate, so non US asset price in USD drop, this share price in USD drop?
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Jimboy Member	30-Oct-2017 11:37        Jimboy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I agree with what you said. Thanks for comparing HK Land with family run companies like UOL...etc In terms of PE and PB, HK. Land is very much undervalued comparing to these companies too... Good investing! Hippocrates      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 17:31) Posted: Actually I am happy that HKLand is managed in the most boring and unsexy way. It is controlled by Jardine Matheson which is still largely owned by Keswick family. Basically you have to view it as a huge family business like UOB/UIC/Haw Par of Wee' s family. Hence, the owners are *extremely* unlikely to divest their important investment properties just to boost the share price temporarily (since they don' t need the profit from the stock market anway so why kill the goose that laid the golden eggs?). On the contrary, their investment horizon is for generations as it is tied to the fate/wealth of the family. There are in fact many other properties developers that are into the game of building and divesting. You' ll see exciting time with huge windfalls, as well as quiet time when they sink into red. This is not how HKLand is managed from what I see over the years. There are much better options to trade if you are excited about increasing stock price every passing day and hope that you can sell it soon. Ignoring the stock price, HKLand' s owner earnings (real earning by Buffett' s definition, not net profit!) has been increasing over the decade. Even the financial crisis in 2007-09 and general economy downturn 2013-16 had negligible effect on owner earnings... of course the stock price suffered but those years were the best for value hunters.   If I am not mistaken, HKLand has an impressive accumulation of ~US$2 per share of owner earnings over the past 10 years. Has that been reflected in the stock price? I would think so, but stock market is irrational anyway. In short, if your investment style fits family business model where the owners aim to grow the wealth for future generations with little regard to the stock price and dividend distribution, this is a good counter to hold on to... until the day the business becomes stagnant or shrinks (or if over-excited investors decide to push the price way way way beyond its intrinsic value lol). Another company that is getting more boring in that sense is Capitaland (relying on growing the wealth and focusing on recurring income). Some of you might want to take a look.
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calvinlooi Senior	28-Oct-2017 12:47        calvinlooi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Revaluation gain need not benefit the company by divestment. It increase the net asset value (from $1m to $2m let say) with benefit as followings: 1. Increase rental: For an investment property, the fair value will get by (a) market price & (b) NRV of future rental  We can expect a property that worth $2m to rent much more than a property that worth $1m 5 years ago. If (a) market price is much higher than (b) NRV of future rental, the management should propose to sell it. 2. Lower finance cost The company can always refinance its property. 5 years ago my property worth $1m and borrow at 3% interest rate. Now, my property worth $10m, I can either: (a) Borrow $1m at lower interest 2% (b) Borrow $2m at 3%, use surplus $1 to buy another property. As for the dividend, I think is time for management to revise, what i ask for is reasonable. If they dont care investor relations (they dont need fund for public), just delist it. Hippocrates      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 18:04) Posted: Revaluation gain of the property is irrelevant unless it is divested. You could have a HDB unit that is revaluated from 200k to 800k years for many consecutive years due to overall appreciation of housing price, but that is a totally useless gain unless you are downgrading it or move to a less ideal location. I can assure you that active recycling of property is definitely not the core business model of HKLand, especially not with their investment properties. They have a property development arm that build and dispose, but the bulk of their income is still coming from the rental of investment properties that the owners have no intention of selling. Maybe I have missed the part on its dividend policy, but given that HKLand is 50% owned by Jardine Matheson, it is still Keswick family that has a say of any change, not minority shareholders unfortunately.   calvinlooi      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 17:42) Posted: Not matter how u dont want to divest， there are occasions to recycle investment. Sell and to buy property in better grow position. There have been huge revaluation gain on properties for 3 consecutive years. Dont see it as one off gain anymore. No matter management divest or not, they had proven their ability to spot property at good location. Current dividend policy is also irrelevant. If it is requested to change, it will.
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Hippocrates Member	27-Oct-2017 18:10        Hippocrates About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	That' s nice. I certainly won' t reject an increase in dividend.... will thank you for that if you succeed in influencing the management. calvinlooi      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 17:58) Posted: All investors have different objectives. I invest this company for two reason: 1. Invest in property value 2. Invest in USD (I think it is low enough) And I got a time frame for this, I will invest this for one year: 1. Those hold for long term, I may not see as long as u did. 2. Those hold for speculation, I did not sell when high (before dividend) and buy back later. Should there are chances for me to attend next AGM, i will request increase dividend. It does not fit for current earnings. I believe the return after one year should be good enough for me to make a one mth trip. That' s all I hope for.
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Hippocrates Member	27-Oct-2017 18:04        Hippocrates About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Revaluation gain of the property is irrelevant unless it is divested. You could have a HDB unit that is revaluated from 200k to 800k years for many consecutive years due to overall appreciation of housing price, but that is a totally useless gain unless you are downgrading it or move to a less ideal location. I can assure you that active recycling of property is definitely not the core business model of HKLand, especially not with their investment properties. They have a property development arm that build and dispose, but the bulk of their income is still coming from the rental of investment properties that the owners have no intention of selling. Maybe I have missed the part on its dividend policy, but given that HKLand is 50% owned by Jardine Matheson, it is still Keswick family that has a say of any change, not minority shareholders unfortunately.   calvinlooi      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 17:42) Posted: Not matter how u dont want to divest， there are occasions to recycle investment. Sell and to buy property in better grow position. There have been huge revaluation gain on properties for 3 consecutive years. Dont see it as one off gain anymore. No matter management divest or not, they had proven their ability to spot property at good location. Current dividend policy is also irrelevant. If it is requested to change, it will.
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calvinlooi Senior	27-Oct-2017 17:58        calvinlooi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	All investors have different objectives. I invest this company for two reason: 1. Invest in property value 2. Invest in USD (I think it is low enough) And I got a time frame for this, I will invest this for one year: 1. Those hold for long term, I may not see as long as u did. 2. Those hold for speculation, I did not sell when high (before dividend) and buy back later. Should there are chances for me to attend next AGM, i will request increase dividend. It does not fit for current earnings. I believe the return after one year should be good enough for me to make a one mth trip. That' s all I hope for.
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calvinlooi Senior	27-Oct-2017 17:42        calvinlooi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Not matter how u dont want to divest， there are occasions to recycle investment. Sell and to buy property in better grow position. There have been huge revaluation gain on properties for 3 consecutive years. Dont see it as one off gain anymore. No matter management divest or not, they had proven their ability to spot property at good location. Current dividend policy is also irrelevant. If it is requested to change, it will.
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Hippocrates Member	27-Oct-2017 17:31        Hippocrates About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Actually I am happy that HKLand is managed in the most boring and unsexy way. It is controlled by Jardine Matheson which is still largely owned by Keswick family. Basically you have to view it as a huge family business like UOB/UIC/Haw Par of Wee' s family. Hence, the owners are *extremely* unlikely to divest their important investment properties just to boost the share price temporarily (since they don' t need the profit from the stock market anway so why kill the goose that laid the golden eggs?). On the contrary, their investment horizon is for generations as it is tied to the fate/wealth of the family. There are in fact many other properties developers that are into the game of building and divesting. You' ll see exciting time with huge windfalls, as well as quiet time when they sink into red. This is not how HKLand is managed from what I see over the years. There are much better options to trade if you are excited about increasing stock price every passing day and hope that you can sell it soon. Ignoring the stock price, HKLand' s owner earnings (real earning by Buffett' s definition, not net profit!) has been increasing over the decade. Even the financial crisis in 2007-09 and general economy downturn 2013-16 had negligible effect on owner earnings... of course the stock price suffered but those years were the best for value hunters.   If I am not mistaken, HKLand has an impressive accumulation of ~US$2 per share of owner earnings over the past 10 years. Has that been reflected in the stock price? I would think so, but stock market is irrational anyway. In short, if your investment style fits family business model where the owners aim to grow the wealth for future generations with little regard to the stock price and dividend distribution, this is a good counter to hold on to... until the day the business becomes stagnant or shrinks (or if over-excited investors decide to push the price way way way beyond its intrinsic value lol). Another company that is getting more boring in that sense is Capitaland (relying on growing the wealth and focusing on recurring income). Some of you might want to take a look.
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MikeL2009 Senior	27-Oct-2017 13:10        MikeL2009 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I hope you are right, I am wrong. We know this is one of the so-called ' undervalued' stocks, but it has to perform at some point.   calvinlooi      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 13:03) Posted: The drop in 1st half year is due to the drop is USD.  Investors dont want to hold shares denominated in USD. Nothing wrong with HKL. Now USD should be quite stable already, I dont think it can drop very much further. Today shares also in high volume, if current price at $7.30++ can establish a new bottom, it proves an upward trend against previous one $7.20++. It will shoot to the sky. MikeL2009      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 12:56) Posted: So far, this counter has been rather disappointing. The same pattern of fast losing steam with every small spike.
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calvinlooi Senior	27-Oct-2017 13:03        calvinlooi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The drop in 1st half year is due to the drop is USD.  Investors dont want to hold shares denominated in USD. Nothing wrong with HKL. Now USD should be quite stable already, I dont think it can drop very much further. Today shares also in high volume, if current price at $7.30++ can establish a new bottom, it proves an upward trend against previous one $7.20++. It will shoot to the sky. MikeL2009      ( Date: 27-Oct-2017 12:56) Posted: So far, this counter has been rather disappointing. The same pattern of fast losing steam with every small spike.
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MikeL2009 Senior	27-Oct-2017 12:56        MikeL2009 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	So far, this counter has been rather disappointing. The same pattern of fast losing steam with every small spike.
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Jimboy Member	27-Oct-2017 09:44        Jimboy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	House Passes Budget Blueprint, Clearing Path for Tax Overhaul https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/26/us/politics/house-budget-blueprint-tax-cut.html This is highly positive for USD...which HK Land is denominated in. Good investing!
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Jimboy Member	26-Oct-2017 21:40        Jimboy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Hi Calvin , pls chk out hk land 2016 ye web-seminar for your a regarding their dividend policy. ..good investing! calvinlooi      ( Date: 26-Oct-2017 18:17) Posted: As said, there are two story that will result in share price jump: 1. Divestment of property 2. Increase of dividend, long time not adjusted to reflect with current earnings. Low dividend is actually a very good point at here, just wait and see. Jimboy      ( Date: 26-Oct-2017 17:37) Posted: " CK Asset sold the Centre at HK$40+Billion" is just a rumour. (  http://www1.hkej.com/dailynews/investment/article/1685586) Haing said this, this news should not affect HK Land' s share price because it is still one of the " most value for money" property counter be it in SGX or any other stock exchange in the world - given that its NAV is USD 14+ per share. Yes, we know that  HK Land might not want to sell their investment property today, but anyone can assure that they will not sell when the curcumstances tell them to do so otherwise? Good investing
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calvinlooi Senior	26-Oct-2017 18:17        calvinlooi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	As said, there are two story that will result in share price jump: 1. Divestment of property 2. Increase of dividend, long time not adjusted to reflect with current earnings. Low dividend is actually a very good point at here, just wait and see. Jimboy      ( Date: 26-Oct-2017 17:37) Posted: " CK Asset sold the Centre at HK$40+Billion" is just a rumour. (  http://www1.hkej.com/dailynews/investment/article/1685586) Haing said this, this news should not affect HK Land' s share price because it is still one of the " most value for money" property counter be it in SGX or any other stock exchange in the world - given that its NAV is USD 14+ per share. Yes, we know that  HK Land might not want to sell their investment property today, but anyone can assure that they will not sell when the curcumstances tell them to do so otherwise? Good investing! calvinlooi      ( Date: 26-Oct-2017 09:07) Posted: The drop after dividend still on going. Or is there any news that I dont know? As long as this drop not hit the price of 7.20, there will be upward formation
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Jimboy Member	26-Oct-2017 17:37        Jimboy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	" CK Asset sold the Centre at HK$40+Billion" is just a rumour. (  http://www1.hkej.com/dailynews/investment/article/1685586) Haing said this, this news should not affect HK Land' s share price because it is still one of the " most value for money" property counter be it in SGX or any other stock exchange in the world - given that its NAV is USD 14+ per share. Yes, we know that  HK Land might not want to sell their investment property today, but anyone can assure that they will not sell when the curcumstances tell them to do so otherwise? Good investing! calvinlooi      ( Date: 26-Oct-2017 09:07) Posted: The drop after dividend still on going. Or is there any news that I dont know? As long as this drop not hit the price of 7.20, there will be upward formation
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calvinlooi Senior	26-Oct-2017 09:07        calvinlooi About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The drop after dividend still on going. Or is there any news that I dont know? As long as this drop not hit the price of 7.20, there will be upward formation
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