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Thanks and welcome MarcPh. In all kinds of investing no matter which asset classes, the investment rules are the same even though one is dealing with different asset classes. The first rule of investing is always never to lose money. An investment should result in having high certainty of receiving back the principal sum. Then one must assess that there is also fair amount of certainty of gains in terms of any dividends/incomes/interests received and/or capital appreciation over the period of investment undertaken.
Always remember rule number one not to lose money and one will think carefully before making prudent investment choices that are financially wise and not financially destructive as time compounding will compound gains on a wise investment and also compound losses on a losing investment over time. Also, there is time opportunity cost in having invested in a losing investment instead of a winning investment over the lost time.
Time is a finite resource that will run out for everyone' s lifespan and once time is lost and sucked into compounding a losing investment, the lost time will never recover again. Therefore, use time, a finite resource wisely and invest with our limited time and finances in investment choices prudently to the best of our due diligence. Because it either will compound a good investment resulting in more returns or a bad investment resulting in more losses over time.
Always remember rule number one not to lose money and one will think carefully before making prudent investment choices that are financially wise and not financially destructive as time compounding will compound gains on a wise investment and also compound losses on a losing investment over time. Also, there is time opportunity cost in having invested in a losing investment instead of a winning investment over the lost time.
Time is a finite resource that will run out for everyone' s lifespan and once time is lost and sucked into compounding a losing investment, the lost time will never recover again. Therefore, use time, a finite resource wisely and invest with our limited time and finances in investment choices prudently to the best of our due diligence. Because it either will compound a good investment resulting in more returns or a bad investment resulting in more losses over time.
MarcPh ( Date: 25-May-2017 16:42) Posted:
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Quote from JeremyOw:
Quote from an online article:
Well-said Jeremy. I beg to differ when people tell me that there is a need to rush-in just because there is a lack of high-yield SGD issues. Tuan Sing' s new 6% 2020 will find it difficult to stay above 100 when issued.
Yield alone is definitely not the only consideration. The same amount of due diligence work to assess the credit worthiness of the issuer of the high yield bond is even more important.
Quote from an online article:
the new 3-year SGD bond from Tuan Sing Holdings is attractive due to lack of high yielding SGD bond issues in the market
Well-said Jeremy. I beg to differ when people tell me that there is a need to rush-in just because there is a lack of high-yield SGD issues. Tuan Sing' s new 6% 2020 will find it difficult to stay above 100 when issued.
New Tuan Sing 6% 2020 bonds likely to struggle to stay above 100-par when issued.
http://www.financeasia.com/News/330326,gajah-tunggal-emerges-from-distressed-past.aspx#
I attach above a link to an article from FinanceAsia which talks about the Gajah Tunggal' s bond restructuring in 2009. I also found out from various online sources that Indonesia has a culture of bond default and bond restructuring by many Indonesian companies. Seems from the article by FinanceAsia, Gajah Tunggal never learnt their lesson from their 2009 bond restructuring and still made a return to the market to raise another bond in 2013.
Pity those bondholders who got caught into the bond restructuring exercise which usually would result in disadvantegous terms to them. Well, it is always on a willing seller-willing buyer basis. Who is to take the blame here? There will always be people and institutions interested in high yielding bonds despite the high credit risk of the issuer.
Yield alone is definitely not the only consideration. The same amount of due diligence work to assess the credit worthiness of the issuer of the high yield bond is even more important. That is why if one is not familiar with an issuer such as a company, investing in soveregin bond of a proven government such as Singapore savings bonds is still safer even if the yield is only 2.4% pa over a 10 years bond period. It is just enough to fight inflation with very minimal risk. And one can also redeem the bond early before maturity without any penalty. I attach below a link to the website on Singapore savings bond for those interested to find out more info.
Afterall, first rule of investing is never lose money. How to make sure one never lose money? Always make sure one knows what you are getting into with your money. Because if one is not interested to find out what you are getting into with your own money, certainly no one else will be.
Singapore Savings Bonds
http://www.sgs.gov.sg/savingsbonds/About-SSB/Overview.aspx#
I attach above a link to an article from FinanceAsia which talks about the Gajah Tunggal' s bond restructuring in 2009. I also found out from various online sources that Indonesia has a culture of bond default and bond restructuring by many Indonesian companies. Seems from the article by FinanceAsia, Gajah Tunggal never learnt their lesson from their 2009 bond restructuring and still made a return to the market to raise another bond in 2013.
Pity those bondholders who got caught into the bond restructuring exercise which usually would result in disadvantegous terms to them. Well, it is always on a willing seller-willing buyer basis. Who is to take the blame here? There will always be people and institutions interested in high yielding bonds despite the high credit risk of the issuer.
Yield alone is definitely not the only consideration. The same amount of due diligence work to assess the credit worthiness of the issuer of the high yield bond is even more important. That is why if one is not familiar with an issuer such as a company, investing in soveregin bond of a proven government such as Singapore savings bonds is still safer even if the yield is only 2.4% pa over a 10 years bond period. It is just enough to fight inflation with very minimal risk. And one can also redeem the bond early before maturity without any penalty. I attach below a link to the website on Singapore savings bond for those interested to find out more info.
Afterall, first rule of investing is never lose money. How to make sure one never lose money? Always make sure one knows what you are getting into with your money. Because if one is not interested to find out what you are getting into with your own money, certainly no one else will be.
Singapore Savings Bonds
http://www.sgs.gov.sg/savingsbonds/About-SSB/Overview.aspx#
MarcPh ( Date: 25-May-2017 15:41) Posted:
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Tuan Sing' s extended family issues a good variety of bonds in Singapore and Indonesia. Their most notorious failure was the Gajah Tunggal' s bond restructuring in 2009. The high-grade bonds from various businesses of this extended family frequently trade below par due to the above mentioned and resulting in a lack of liquidity.
Just my take.
Just my take.
jeremyow ( Date: 25-May-2017 14:54) Posted:
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Oh no. Looks like Nam Cheong Limited may need to negotiate with their bondholders on restructing the bond. Usually this would result in disadvantages for the bondholders. But if it can prevent total loss of their capital, guess bondholders have no choice because to seek legal means to wind down the company may also not go well in that bondholders may not always have full guarantee of recovering back their full sum of capital.
limroy88 ( Date: 25-May-2017 14:28) Posted:
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http://www.bondsupermart.com/main/article/Tuan-Sing-Holdings-Limited-Potential-New-3YR-SGD-bonds-425
I attach a link from Bondsupermart which discusses the new bond offering from Tuan Sing Holdings and points of consideration for bond investors. Seems that from the article, a yield of 6.25% pa on the new 3-year SGD bond from Tuan Sing Holdings is attractive due to lack of high yielding SGD bond issues in the market and also that a relatively comparative peer Chip Eng Seng recently issued a 5-year SGD bond at even lower yield of 4.9% pa.
I attach a link from Bondsupermart which discusses the new bond offering from Tuan Sing Holdings and points of consideration for bond investors. Seems that from the article, a yield of 6.25% pa on the new 3-year SGD bond from Tuan Sing Holdings is attractive due to lack of high yielding SGD bond issues in the market and also that a relatively comparative peer Chip Eng Seng recently issued a 5-year SGD bond at even lower yield of 4.9% pa.
MarcPh ( Date: 25-May-2017 13:13) Posted:
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NC Auditors submitted ongoing concerns of balance sheet insufficient to service the bond redemption in Q3.
MarcPh ( Date: 24-May-2017 09:25) Posted:
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how many yrs lock in period ?.... yield 4.5%/pa....when last day of application ? last wk i put some sd in maybank...total 9.75% fr 5yrs lock in....
jm2212 ( Date: 24-May-2017 14:03) Posted:
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3Y TUAN SING HOLDINGS SGD
Yield: 6.25%pa
Denomination: S$250,000
Remarks: Latest profits and revenue declined by 44% and 29% respectively. Tuan Sing holds several prime buildings in Singapore, eg Cecil Street & Oxley Street area. A small section of these properties are used by businesses related to there extended family. Latest purchase of Sime Darby Centre in Bukit Timah is expected to slightly strain cashflow which triggers the need to seek more working capital from this bond. The new 3Y bonds are priced fairly but absolutely not sexy. Tuan Sing' s current 4.5% 2019 bonds had been trading below 100 since launch (as low as 95 at one stage). Given a shorter remaining tenor, the yield of Tuan Sing 2019 bonds is about 5.5%pa which is comparable with the projected 6.0 - 6.25% coupon of the new bond.
Yield: 6.25%pa
Denomination: S$250,000
Remarks: Latest profits and revenue declined by 44% and 29% respectively. Tuan Sing holds several prime buildings in Singapore, eg Cecil Street & Oxley Street area. A small section of these properties are used by businesses related to there extended family. Latest purchase of Sime Darby Centre in Bukit Timah is expected to slightly strain cashflow which triggers the need to seek more working capital from this bond. The new 3Y bonds are priced fairly but absolutely not sexy. Tuan Sing' s current 4.5% 2019 bonds had been trading below 100 since launch (as low as 95 at one stage). Given a shorter remaining tenor, the yield of Tuan Sing 2019 bonds is about 5.5%pa which is comparable with the projected 6.0 - 6.25% coupon of the new bond.
Thanks MarcPh for your sharing too! The financial markets really favour those with bigger pocket, can bargain for better price in this case for the bond if one invest at least a substantial amount. There is thus a saying that the rich gets richer. How true it is because the rich does get better deals eg. for an accredited investor with high amount of investible cash and net worth.
MarcPh ( Date: 24-May-2017 16:00) Posted:
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You are welcomed Jm2212! :)
jm2212 ( Date: 24-May-2017 15:09) Posted:
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Thanks for sharing Jeremy.
I checked with some friends on today' s pricing. Re-tap price is 99.6 including commission, some RM takes 0.25 commission will offer to you at 99.5. Those getting 2mio can bargin until 99.4.
I checked with some friends on today' s pricing. Re-tap price is 99.6 including commission, some RM takes 0.25 commission will offer to you at 99.5. Those getting 2mio can bargin until 99.4.
jeremyow ( Date: 24-May-2017 14:56) Posted:
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Hi Jeremy, thanks for sharing!
jeremyow ( Date: 24-May-2017 14:56) Posted:
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http://www.bondsupermart.com/main/article/RHT-Health-Trust-re-tap-of-existing-SGD-bonds-5-yield-for-12YR--426
Hi Jm2212, I attach a link to an article by Bondsupermart which discusses the points of consideration for this bond by RHT Health Trust. It seems good as RHT Health Trust has a low credit risk. I looked up their trend of financials over the past few years and the issuer RHT Health Trust seems ok as well. Based on the article for a one year period of 4.5% coupon rate with relatively low credit risk, this bond gives the highest coupon rate among bonds of other healthcare REITs and business trusts. You can continue to research more and come to your own decision as my sharing is by no means comprehensive and conclusive of the investment merits of this bond.
Hi Jm2212, I attach a link to an article by Bondsupermart which discusses the points of consideration for this bond by RHT Health Trust. It seems good as RHT Health Trust has a low credit risk. I looked up their trend of financials over the past few years and the issuer RHT Health Trust seems ok as well. Based on the article for a one year period of 4.5% coupon rate with relatively low credit risk, this bond gives the highest coupon rate among bonds of other healthcare REITs and business trusts. You can continue to research more and come to your own decision as my sharing is by no means comprehensive and conclusive of the investment merits of this bond.
jm2212 ( Date: 24-May-2017 14:03) Posted:
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RHT health trust maturing Jul 2018 at 4.5% coupon... I' m tempted to go for it
More examples that investing in retail bonds from companies do carry risks that the company may not be able to fulfil the obligations to their bondholders such as coupon payments and redemption of the principal sum if the company runs into financial difficulties and uncertainties. The bond market value if the bond is listed may also go down highlighted in these examples of Nam Cheong, Raffles Education and our recent example of Noble Group. Bond investment is thus not a given guaranteed safe bet. It depends on the fortunes of the underying issuer. If the underlying issuer is not doing well and faces financial problems, there is a risk that the obligations to the bondholders may not be fulfilled.
Finally.....OCBC drops coverage and recommendation for Nam Cheong
http://www.tradewindsnews.com/offshore/1265688/ocbc-drops-nam-cheong-bond-coverage
Singapore bank says financial uncertainties make it difficult to provide recommendations.
http://www.tradewindsnews.com/offshore/1265688/ocbc-drops-nam-cheong-bond-coverage
Singapore bank says financial uncertainties make it difficult to provide recommendations.
MarcPh ( Date: 14-Apr-2017 21:18) Posted:
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Raffles Education struggling to stay afloat historical low. Share loss over 20% since the appointment of Chew Hua Seng' s fresh grad son to oversee Switzerland' s new campus and hospitality business.
MarcPh ( Date: 10-May-2017 22:37) Posted:
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Blaming Game - peddlers of the Noble US$750mio 8.75% bonds launched two months ago were HSBC, ING Bank, Morgan Stanley and SocGen (Joint Lead Managers) and DBS, Rabo, ABN Amro (co-manager) of which HSBC, ING, Morgan Stanley, DBS, and Socié té Gé né rale are known to be Noble' s creditor banks. News emerged on WSJ about conflict of interests in the bond issue:
Recent controversial failure in coal business sparks rumour of banking vultures seeking Noble' s Aussie coal assets:
Noble Has One Option Left - WSJ
As recently as March, the company was able to raise $750 million of fresh bonds. Coincidentally? or not? it was as bankers were trying to sell those bonds that talk of China' s Sinochem investing in Noble first emerged. In another notable coincidence, much of the money raised from bondholders has gone toward paying down loans owed to some of the banks involved in the bond underwriting.
The underlying truth is that Noble now seems to exist merely to raise money from one set of lenders to pay off another.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/noble-has-one-option-left-1495537383
As recently as March, the company was able to raise $750 million of fresh bonds. Coincidentally? or not? it was as bankers were trying to sell those bonds that talk of China' s Sinochem investing in Noble first emerged. In another notable coincidence, much of the money raised from bondholders has gone toward paying down loans owed to some of the banks involved in the bond underwriting.
The underlying truth is that Noble now seems to exist merely to raise money from one set of lenders to pay off another.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/noble-has-one-option-left-1495537383
Recent controversial failure in coal business sparks rumour of banking vultures seeking Noble' s Aussie coal assets:
- Appx 13.2% in Yancoal Australia
- Appx 10% in Aspire Mining
- Appx 13.7% in Resource Generation