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Singapore Bonds

You are welcomed! Hope my sharing was useful to you. Thank you! 

MarcPh      ( Date: 11-May-2017 12:56) Posted: great points! jeremyow      ( Date: 11-May-2017 09:42) Posted: Investing in any corporate bonds of a company requires the same amount of due diligence work as investing in a company shares. Do not assume because a corporate bond is guaranteed for its principal amount and the company has to redeem and pay back the principal amount by the time the bond matures, one is always safe with bonds. If the company is not doing well, it may miss its coupon payments plus risk the possibility that it cannot fulfill its obligation to redeem the principal sum of the bond fully when it matures. Of course, bondholders rank higher than shareholders being a creditor of the company when it winds down and has first of claim to its assets which are liquidated. However having said that, if the liquidated value of the assets of the company is so low that it cannot pay back fully the debts it owes to all its creditors, bondholders may also risk partial or full loss on their principal invested sum. So, if one desires to invest in corporate bond, due diligence to assess whether the company issuing the bond is able to pay the coupons and also redeem back the principal sum of the bond when it matures. A bondholder may think he or she can still sell the bond on the open market if anything goes wrong to protect his/her capital. This is true but not always foolproof. If the company is facing some difficulties in its businesses or undergoing a risk that it may not continue as an ongoing concern due to deteroriating balance sheet, the bond traded price on the open market may also suffer a loss as it is traded at an abnormally lower price factoring in the uncertainties both in bond coupon payments and redemption of the bond principal sum when it matures. In conclusion, nothing is ' bao chiak' (confirmed to make money) when it comes to investments. One has to open his eyes big big and make sure he has assessed the water is really safe and has put on the respective life protecting gear such as life vest before jumping into it.

 

Given the same company and same maturity, perpetual bonds or preference shares should offer higher yields than plain vanilla bonds.

Technically Perpetual bonds are the riskiest bonds issued by the company and Preference Shares are ranked higher-risk that perpetual bonds (one level below Ordinary Shares).

Then why do companies issue Perp bonds or preference shares? Technically pref shares are recognized as capital (instead of debts) in accounting terms which can shore up the accounts. Perp bonds of banks are also considered as a form of back-up capital (only applicable to banks).  Banks are supposed to maintain certain level of capital adequacy ratios (CAR) for safe-banking and under BASEL framework, many bank perp bonds have features that force the perp shares to be converted to capital in the event of a breach in the banks' CAR.

  Some companies are highly geared but to hint at their sincerity of redeeming the perp bonds after a certain years, they will include the following features:

• Callable afer X years (redemption)
• A self-imposed high step-up in coupon after X years if they fail to redeem on first call-date.
• Dividend stopper - meaning that no ordinary shareholders can get dividend until the perp bond coupons are paid.
• Accumulative - If they default on a particular coupon, they will still have to pay back when they have the cashflow in future + accrued interests. Bank Perp bonds are not allowed to contain accumulative coupon features but companies can do that for the perp bonds.

 

vivivava      ( Date: 11-May-2017 11:13) Posted: anyone know about the intricacies of Perpetual? Is it that its perpetual with no fixed maturity until the fixed callable dates?   Is this more volatile? How do we price this against a traditional plain vanilla bonds?   should be more expensive that traditional bond as it gives issuers some flexibility for capital management.

 

great points!

jeremyow      ( Date: 11-May-2017 09:42) Posted: Investing in any corporate bonds of a company requires the same amount of due diligence work as investing in a company shares. Do not assume because a corporate bond is guaranteed for its principal amount and the company has to redeem and pay back the principal amount by the time the bond matures, one is always safe with bonds. If the company is not doing well, it may miss its coupon payments plus risk the possibility that it cannot fulfill its obligation to redeem the principal sum of the bond fully when it matures. Of course, bondholders rank higher than shareholders being a creditor of the company when it winds down and has first of claim to its assets which are liquidated. However having said that, if the liquidated value of the assets of the company is so low that it cannot pay back fully the debts it owes to all its creditors, bondholders may also risk partial or full loss on their principal invested sum. So, if one desires to invest in corporate bond, due diligence to assess whether the company issuing the bond is able to pay the coupons and also redeem back the principal sum of the bond when it matures. A bondholder may think he or she can still sell the bond on the open market if anything goes wrong to protect his/her capital. This is true but not always foolproof. If the company is facing some difficulties in its businesses or undergoing a risk that it may not continue as an ongoing concern due to deteroriating balance sheet, the bond traded price on the open market may also suffer a loss as it is traded at an abnormally lower price factoring in the uncertainties both in bond coupon payments and redemption of the bond principal sum when it matures. In conclusion, nothing is ' bao chiak' (confirmed to make money) when it comes to investments. One has to open his eyes big big and make sure he has assessed the water is really safe and has put on the respective life protecting gear such as life vest before jumping into it.   MarcPh      ( Date: 11-May-2017 07:11) Posted: Sorry about some typing mistakes - About $80mio of bonds due to mature a year later and trading at 20% discount to par, translating to 25-28% yield. There is another $88mio of debts due for refinance/repaid in the next 12 months and the total of both is equivalent to current market cap. However, free cashflow balance in latest Statement of Cashflow dropped 50% from $54mio to $27mio. http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/REC-Announcement-FY2017Q3results-09052017.ashx?App=Announcement& FileID=452740   As for your point about " gamble" on it, I wouldn' t do so for the following reasons: Bondholders - For similar high-yield SGD bonds, there are safer issuers to choose from. In addition to the above mentioned debts (equivalent to current market cap), there are also another $200-300mio of debts due to maturity after them. It makes sense for the company to offload more of their education-properties to shore up their accounts or it will be sank by refinancing woes.   Shareholders - SGX places company on watchlists if losses persist and stock prices consistently trade below 20 cents. This hints that the company should issue more rights (last rights-issue at 16 cents) to reduce financing costs so that they can turn profitable and/or do a share-consolidation like Noble Group. ya, just for discussion. Don' t buy or sell based on these chats.

 

anyone know about the intricacies of Perpetual?

Is it that its perpetual with no fixed maturity until the fixed callable dates?   Is this more volatile?

How do we price this against a traditional plain vanilla bonds?   should be more expensive that traditional bond as it gives issuers some flexibility for capital management.

 

 

Was quite lucky on this one.   They recommended 2 below and steer me towards Mapletree ...saying its Temasek or GIC backed.   Where else the other one is not.

So I thought its good of them to tell me that even though its lower coupon but safer.

But i then realised that I could not check the price they offered was competitive.

I sold it after a year or 1.5 years....then I realised there was no way I could determine an indicative price.   I had to ring up DBS to ask if they can offer a quote.   I somehow found bondsupermart  who showed me the bid/ask spread on a daily basis without registering for the services.   Even if its indicative. it is  useful,,,,so i used that to bargain with the RM/Dealer until i got what I wanted.   Liquidity is a problem and they control the market and hard for retail investors to invest in this.   Getting a market price is also difficult with cbonds, euroclear  because u need to 1st register with them before they give u something.   So my feel is that with bondsupermart, they basically level the playing field.   Also RM told me they cannot compete with bondsupermart  prices....so I used that to bargain with them till i gotten the price i wanted.   Hard to invest in this as the market is small and controlled.   better with listed retail bonds.

but be careful as anything above 6 or 7% is risky.   I rather go for safe sovereign bonds or sovereign backed bonds with reasonable coupons

MarcPh      ( Date: 10-May-2017 22:22) Posted: Congrats if you bought the GLPSP 5.5% or Mapletree 5.125%. Bond bonds traded above par and with great liquidity even during the bond selldown 6-12months ago. Ok back to our discussions about secondary bond pricing...... For bonds from top issuers like GLP or Mapletree, there is always liquidity, you can find ready buyers and sellers. For smaller issuers, investors are usually forced to hold-till-maturity (nothing wrong, because many bondholders don' t trade in resale market). For pricing, the price that you see on bondsupermart (except Bond Express), Cbonds, Bloomberg terminals are usually indicative. The final price is determined by the negotiation between the central dealers of the buyer/seller' s rep. You are right that at this stage, this is no price transparency. Our country could have done more. For thinly traded bonds, you will still find bid-ask pricing on bondsupermart, Cbonds or Bloomberg but these are Bval scores. Bval are just market-accepted pricing level guide detrived by Bloomberg. It gives investors and fundmanagers a mean to valuate a bond' s market price but it does not mean that there are ready buyers or sellers. Thank you vivivava      ( Date: 09-May-2017 13:21) Posted: think they also recommended GLPSP 5.5% XS0713845195

 

Investing in any corporate bonds of a company requires the same amount of due diligence work as investing in a company shares. Do not assume because a corporate bond is guaranteed for its principal amount and the company has to redeem and pay back the principal amount by the time the bond matures, one is always safe with bonds. If the company is not doing well, it may miss its coupon payments plus risk the possibility that it cannot fulfill its obligation to redeem the principal sum of the bond fully when it matures.

Of course, bondholders rank higher than shareholders being a creditor of the company when it winds down and has first of claim to its assets which are liquidated. However having said that, if the liquidated value of the assets of the company is so low that it cannot pay back fully the debts it owes to all its creditors, bondholders may also risk partial or full loss on their principal invested sum. So, if one desires to invest in corporate bond, due diligence to assess whether the company issuing the bond is able to pay the coupons and also redeem back the principal sum of the bond when it matures.

A bondholder may think he or she can still sell the bond on the open market if anything goes wrong to protect his/her capital. This is true but not always foolproof. If the company is facing some difficulties in its businesses or undergoing a risk that it may not continue as an ongoing concern due to deteroriating balance sheet, the bond traded price on the open market may also suffer a loss as it is traded at an abnormally lower price factoring in the uncertainties both in bond coupon payments and redemption of the bond principal sum when it matures.

In conclusion, nothing is ' bao chiak' (confirmed to make money) when it comes to investments. One has to open his eyes big big and make sure he has assessed the water is really safe and has put on the respective life protecting gear such as life vest before jumping into it.  

MarcPh      ( Date: 11-May-2017 07:11) Posted: Sorry about some typing mistakes - About $80mio of bonds due to mature a year later and trading at 20% discount to par, translating to 25-28% yield. There is another $88mio of debts due for refinance/repaid in the next 12 months and the total of both is equivalent to current market cap. However, free cashflow balance in latest Statement of Cashflow dropped 50% from $54mio to $27mio. http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/REC-Announcement-FY2017Q3results-09052017.ashx?App=Announcement& FileID=452740   As for your point about " gamble" on it, I wouldn' t do so for the following reasons: Bondholders - For similar high-yield SGD bonds, there are safer issuers to choose from. In addition to the above mentioned debts (equivalent to current market cap), there are also another $200-300mio of debts due to maturity after them. It makes sense for the company to offload more of their education-properties to shore up their accounts or it will be sank by refinancing woes.   Shareholders - SGX places company on watchlists if losses persist and stock prices consistently trade below 20 cents. This hints that the company should issue more rights (last rights-issue at 16 cents) to reduce financing costs so that they can turn profitable and/or do a share-consolidation like Noble Group. ya, just for discussion. Don' t buy or sell based on these chats. john_ric      ( Date: 10-May-2017 23:04) Posted: so what is your comments/ recommendations ? (reader should be  his DueDiligence after reading). can ' gamble' on it??

 

Sorry about some typing mistakes - About $80mio of bonds due to mature a year later and trading at 20% discount to par, translating to 25-28% yield. There is another $88mio of debts due for refinance/repaid in the next 12 months and the total of both is equivalent to current market cap. However, free cashflow balance in latest Statement of Cashflow dropped 50% from $54mio to $27mio. http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/REC-Announcement-FY2017Q3results-09052017.ashx?App=Announcement& FileID=452740

 

As for your point about " gamble" on it, I wouldn' t do so for the following reasons:

• Bondholders - For similar high-yield SGD bonds, there are safer issuers to choose from. In addition to the above mentioned debts (equivalent to current market cap), there are also another $200-300mio of debts due to maturity after them. It makes sense for the company to offload more of their education-properties to shore up their accounts or it will be sank by refinancing woes.

 

• Shareholders - SGX places company on watchlists if losses persist and stock prices consistently trade below 20 cents. This hints that the company should issue more rights (last rights-issue at 16 cents) to reduce financing costs so that they can turn profitable and/or do a share-consolidation like Noble Group.

ya, just for discussion. Don' t buy or sell based on these chats.

john_ric      ( Date: 10-May-2017 23:04) Posted: so what is your comments/ recommendations ? (reader should be  his DueDiligence after reading). can ' gamble' on it?? MarcPh      ( Date: 10-May-2017 22:37) Posted: High Risk Education Companies - Raffles Education Corp Ltd About $80mio of bonds due to mature a year later and trading at 20% discount to par, translating to 25-28% yield. There is another $88mio of debts due for refinance/repaid and the total of both is equivalent to current market cap. However, free cashflow balance in latest Statement of Cashflow dropped 50% to $54mio to $27mio. http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/REC-Announcement-FY2017Q3results-09052017.ashx?App=Announcement& FileID=452740   Raffles education posted $3.9mio and $9.4mio losses in company FY Q2 and Q3 respectively http://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/raffles-educations-3q-losses-widen-43-s94-mil-lower-revenue

 

so what is your comments/ recommendations ? (reader should be  his DueDiligence after reading).

can ' gamble' on it??

MarcPh      ( Date: 10-May-2017 22:37) Posted: High Risk Education Companies - Raffles Education Corp Ltd About $80mio of bonds due to mature a year later and trading at 20% discount to par, translating to 25-28% yield. There is another $88mio of debts due for refinance/repaid and the total of both is equivalent to current market cap. However, free cashflow balance in latest Statement of Cashflow dropped 50% to $54mio to $27mio. http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/REC-Announcement-FY2017Q3results-09052017.ashx?App=Announcement& FileID=452740   Raffles education posted $3.9mio and $9.4mio losses in company FY Q2 and Q3 respectively http://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/raffles-educations-3q-losses-widen-43-s94-mil-lower-revenue

 

High Risk Education Companies - Raffles Education Corp Ltd


About $80mio of bonds due to mature a year later and trading at 20% discount to par, translating to 25-28% yield. There is another $88mio of debts due for refinance/repaid and the total of both is equivalent to current market cap. However, free cashflow balance in latest Statement of Cashflow dropped 50% to $54mio to $27mio. http://infopub.sgx.com/FileOpen/REC-Announcement-FY2017Q3results-09052017.ashx?App=Announcement& FileID=452740

 
Raffles education posted $3.9mio and $9.4mio losses in company FY Q2 and Q3 respectively
http://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/raffles-educations-3q-losses-widen-43-s94-mil-lower-revenue

 

Congrats if you bought the GLPSP 5.5% or Mapletree 5.125%. Bond bonds traded above par and with great liquidity even during the bond selldown 6-12months ago.

Ok back to our discussions about secondary bond pricing......

For bonds from top issuers like GLP or Mapletree, there is always liquidity, you can find ready buyers and sellers. For smaller issuers, investors are usually forced to hold-till-maturity (nothing wrong, because many bondholders don' t trade in resale market).

For pricing, the price that you see on bondsupermart (except Bond Express), Cbonds, Bloomberg terminals are usually indicative. The final price is determined by the negotiation between the central dealers of the buyer/seller' s rep. You are right that at this stage, this is no price transparency. Our country could have done more. For thinly traded bonds, you will still find bid-ask pricing on bondsupermart, Cbonds or Bloomberg but these are Bval scores. Bval are just market-accepted pricing level guide detrived by Bloomberg. It gives investors and fundmanagers a mean to valuate a bond' s market price but it does not mean that there are ready buyers or sellers. Thank you

vivivava      ( Date: 09-May-2017 13:21) Posted: think they also recommended GLPSP 5.5% XS0713845195

 

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the private bankers and RMs are profit-driven. Global bonds market is 20x the size of equity market. Our investors need to have greater awareness.

Thanks for sharing that SCB do sell the O& G bonds to customers. Pardon me that my understanding was completely different, because I was aware that they do not actively go around and offer leverages to these high risks O& G bonds. Maybe they did so afterall, but certainly on a small scale.

Sushan took over DBS' s wealth management 5-7 years ago and the crazy growth that she achieved was simply from the peddling leveraged bonds to rich customers. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/01/singapores-dbs-reports-q1-net-interest-income-nearly-flat.html This is the most ruthless team in the industry. People who buy bonds want a piece of mind, and not all understand the toxicity the O& G bonds bundled with leverage. We should not label these bondholders are reckless speculators. Almost every bond that defaulted in the last two years had been peddled by DBS.

This is like a supermarket that sells veges tained with high-risk pesticides. There were a lot of screams and cries when these bonds defaulted but DBS' s responsibility is suppresed in local press. Regulators tell you to fork out your own money to sue the farmers supermarket has no responsibility.

Many bondholders of defaulted issues sought the help of regulators. The junior MAS staff replied them that this is merely a commercial issue. 10-15 years ago, we brought in swarms of con-men S-chips and many fundmanagers got badly burnt. Now, we had one of the highest bond default rate among developed countries and the affected bondholders are helpless.  It makes people think twice before investing in SGX listed products.

tiltonhall      ( Date: 09-May-2017 13:49) Posted: I disagree with you as I know for a fact that SCB traders and prviate bankers do push bonds to their clients, and some of these have defaulted ... the likes of Swiber, Ezra, Swissco... I don' t think this is because SBC is any worse or any bettter than the other banks. It is just a fact that most bakers with retail clients will push whatever product makes them money. The best approach as a client is to be wary of your private banker or trader. Just remember: they are making money from you first arnd foremest ... not for you.   vivivava      ( Date: 08-May-2017 14:12) Posted: I bgt  corporate bonds from SCB before. But I find it hard to monitor the prices....and when I get quotes from SCB trader, doesnt seem attractive. But i had no other quotes since bonds are kept with them.   Till i found  bondsupermart  and I used their quotes to press down on the quote from SCB traders. For those retail bonds, we can get quotes from SGX, so no issue there.   But they do not carry a lot of bonds

 

this one req  $250,000.

vivivava      ( Date: 09-May-2017 13:16) Posted: Bgt  the below.   MAPLSP 5.125% Perpetual Qsov (SGD) MarcPh      ( Date: 08-May-2017 14:33) Posted: Good brother, SCB is one of the most responsible bond sellers in Singapore. Their wealth management team is headed by a honest (rare) and handsome gentlemen, much better than many slim waist RMs in the trade. Two years ago, at the peak of the bond industry, DBS and OCBC were peddling risky bonds to their private clients for ultra fat commission. To my knowledge, this gentlemen' s team of private bankers are the only people avoided/refused to do that . Do you mind tell him the exact corporate bond that you bought with them (just as an example) and perhaps, I can explain the situation with you.

 

I disagree with you as I know for a fact that SCB traders and prviate bankers do push bonds to their clients, and some of these have defaulted ... the likes of Swiber, Ezra, Swissco...

I don' t think this is because SBC is any worse or any bettter than the other banks.

It is just a fact that most bakers with retail clients will push whatever product makes them money.

The best approach as a client is to be wary of your private banker or trader. Just remember: they are making money from you first arnd foremest ... not for you.

 

vivivava      ( Date: 08-May-2017 14:12) Posted: I bgt  corporate bonds from SCB before. But I find it hard to monitor the prices....and when I get quotes from SCB trader, doesnt seem attractive. But i had no other quotes since bonds are kept with them.   Till i found  bondsupermart  and I used their quotes to press down on the quote from SCB traders. For those retail bonds, we can get quotes from SGX, so no issue there.   But they do not carry a lot of bonds

 

think they also recommended GLPSP 5.5% XS0713845195

 

Bgt  the below.  

MAPLSP 5.125% Perpetual Qsov (SGD)

MarcPh      ( Date: 08-May-2017 14:33) Posted: Good brother, SCB is one of the most responsible bond sellers in Singapore. Their wealth management team is headed by a honest (rare) and handsome gentlemen, much better than many slim waist RMs in the trade. Two years ago, at the peak of the bond industry, DBS and OCBC were peddling risky bonds to their private clients for ultra fat commission. To my knowledge, this gentlemen' s team of private bankers are the only people avoided/refused to do that . Do you mind tell him the exact corporate bond that you bought with them (just as an example) and perhaps, I can explain the situation with you. vivivava      ( Date: 08-May-2017 14:12) Posted: I bgt  corporate bonds from SCB before. But I find it hard to monitor the prices....and when I get quotes from SCB trader, doesnt seem attractive. But i had no other quotes since bonds are kept with them.   Till i found  bondsupermart  and I used their quotes to press down on the quote from SCB traders. For those retail bonds, we can get quotes from SGX, so no issue there.   But they do not carry a lot of bonds

 

Good brother, SCB is one of the most responsible bond sellers in Singapore. Their wealth management team is headed by a honest (rare) and handsome gentlemen, much better than many slim waist RMs in the trade. Two years ago, at the peak of the bond industry, DBS and OCBC were peddling risky bonds to their private clients for ultra fat commission. To my knowledge, this gentlemen' s team of private bankers are the only people avoided/refused to do that .

Do you mind tell him the exact corporate bond that you bought with them (just as an example) and perhaps, I can explain the situation with you.

vivivava      ( Date: 08-May-2017 14:12) Posted: I bgt  corporate bonds from SCB before. But I find it hard to monitor the prices....and when I get quotes from SCB trader, doesnt seem attractive. But i had no other quotes since bonds are kept with them.   Till i found  bondsupermart  and I used their quotes to press down on the quote from SCB traders. For those retail bonds, we can get quotes from SGX, so no issue there.   But they do not carry a lot of bonds

 

I trade through my remisier. She is very good but the central dealers in her securities firm is one of the laziest in Singapore when it comes to bonds, so I should not recommend them. I have only ()!& $)(^!@$O*!@ to say for these central dealers. hahaha

Bank RMs are also good because they can handle/monitor a position over an extended period of time. Many securities firm don' t have the capability to place bid-ask and are always price-takers.

vivivava      ( Date: 08-May-2017 14:08) Posted: so what do you use to trade...corporate bonds or any type of bonds?   MarcPh      ( Date: 08-May-2017 13:13) Posted: hihi, The prices indicated on bondsupermart for large denominations are indicative. For those secondary bonds that they break up into smaller denominations, the bid-ask price are transparent but determined in-house, not directly against the broader market. Unless there' re promotions, the commission rate of bondsupermarket are not the most competitive. If you are using leverage from banks, the bonds will be held in your banks' custodian accounts, not bondsupermart If you are not using leverage but pay in full for bonds of smaller denominations (purchased from bondsupermart), you will still incure some platform fees regularly. You can hold most types of SGD bonds in your CDP account directly. just my take

 

I bgt  corporate bonds from SCB before.

But I find it hard to monitor the prices....and when I get quotes from SCB trader, doesnt seem attractive. But i had no other quotes since bonds are kept with them.   Till i found  bondsupermart  and I used their quotes to press down on the quote from SCB traders.

For those retail bonds, we can get quotes from SGX, so no issue there.   But they do not carry a lot of bonds

 

so what do you use to trade...corporate bonds or any type of bonds?

 

MarcPh      ( Date: 08-May-2017 13:13) Posted: hihi, The prices indicated on bondsupermart for large denominations are indicative. For those secondary bonds that they break up into smaller denominations, the bid-ask price are transparent but determined in-house, not directly against the broader market. Unless there' re promotions, the commission rate of bondsupermarket are not the most competitive. If you are using leverage from banks, the bonds will be held in your banks' custodian accounts, not bondsupermart If you are not using leverage but pay in full for bonds of smaller denominations (purchased from bondsupermart), you will still incure some platform fees regularly. You can hold most types of SGD bonds in your CDP account directly. just my take vivivava      ( Date: 08-May-2017 13:05) Posted: if thinking of investing...look at fundsupermart..they sell corporate bonds too.   Rather than buy from banks because the banks bid/ask quote is not very transparent. go for soverign bonds, by GIC or govt related, temasek,  maple tree, hdb  the rest can be quite risky

 

hihi,

• The prices indicated on bondsupermart for large denominations are indicative. For those secondary bonds that they break up into smaller denominations, the bid-ask price are transparent but determined in-house, not directly against the broader market.
• Unless there' re promotions, the commission rate of bondsupermarket are not the most competitive.
• If you are using leverage from banks, the bonds will be held in your banks' custodian accounts, not bondsupermart
• If you are not using leverage but pay in full for bonds of smaller denominations (purchased from bondsupermart), you will still incure some platform fees regularly. You can hold most types of SGD bonds in your CDP account directly.

just my take

vivivava      ( Date: 08-May-2017 13:05) Posted: if thinking of investing...look at fundsupermart..they sell corporate bonds too.   Rather than buy from banks because the banks bid/ask quote is not very transparent. go for soverign bonds, by GIC or govt related, temasek,  maple tree, hdb  the rest can be quite risky john_ric      ( Date: 08-May-2017 12:44) Posted: corporate bond. needs US200,000. big chunk of money. like castle in the air--cant reach.