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Hmm, I can quite understand why they didn't drop the price.

Eg. You have lands with somehow good location, you believe your property has a unique point that others do not have.
Will you drop your price to compete around?

In a sense its something like apple/samsung, the hp industry is doing well, up comes xiaomi cheap cheap lei long fast good snapdragon pop up, will apple/samsung drop price to compete?

I dont think anyone would have predicted correctly how far singapore cooling measure will go.

Anyway on the other hand sukmawati shouldn't give herself so much discount just 15% i find it acceptable but 30%+ is really alot. Good and bad not perfect, given such a situation she shouldn't give herself and her son so much bonuses as well if company isn't doing well, what you guys think?

unique6      ( Date: 15-Oct-2014 02:09) Posted:   Unfortunately management is incompetent.  They bought the 4 land parcels cheap at S$650-730psf. Plus 300 psf for development, they would have made a decent profit had they decided to sell at market price rather than stubbornly keep the selling price 3-5% higher than the neighbouring developments. I went to the show flat and ask about pricing and discounts, the room for negotiations was limited. It didn' t take a genius to feel that after so many govt measures, that property prices will cool. They should have unloaded their units at decent prices back then, $1,400 spf could have been sold out, instead of asking for $1,600spf. Developments job is simple, buy cheap land then resell. Not speculate and hold onto the property. Other developers, buy the land, and launch the sale within few months to lock in the spread. Yes prices could be higher, but that' s taking directional risk. The Braddell and Bartley project took  15-20 months from acquisition to launch. I just think they  have  very poor judgment. The Suryamas company only makes $1-3m a year. They paid $153m plus discount 31% using TG shares. How much would $1-3m a year make? The EPS is now divided by 19 billion more shares.   Qanghoo      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 20:04) Posted: To be fair to this company though, the catalyst for their move into Indonesia was the extremely difficult property market in Singapore after TDSR.  Recall their indicating as much during one of their financial qr reporting last yr.  If not,  their developments at E n R Maisons and the Quinn might have moved better and they probably would have been quite profitable and declared a dividend without having to seek their fortunes outside Singapore.  So, fingers crossed.  the move to Indonesia might be generally well intended, albeit the way it was done probably disadvantaged minority shareholders, and shareholders may still see daylight yet.

 

 

Unfortunately management is incompetent.  They bought the 4 land parcels cheap at S$650-730psf. Plus 300 psf for development, they would have made a decent profit had they decided to sell at market price rather than stubbornly keep the selling price 3-5% higher than the neighbouring developments. I went to the show flat and ask about pricing and discounts, the room for negotiations was limited.

It didn' t take a genius to feel that after so many govt measures, that property prices will cool. They should have unloaded their units at decent prices back then, $1,400 spf could have been sold out, instead of asking for $1,600spf. Developments job is simple, buy cheap land then resell. Not speculate and hold onto the property. Other developers, buy the land, and launch the sale within few months to lock in the spread. Yes prices could be higher, but that' s taking directional risk. The Braddell and Bartley project took  15-20 months from acquisition to launch. I just think they  have  very poor judgment.

The Suryamas company only makes $1-3m a year. They paid $153m plus discount 31% using TG shares. How much would $1-3m a year make? The EPS is now divided by 19 billion more shares.

 

Qanghoo      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 20:04) Posted: To be fair to this company though, the catalyst for their move into Indonesia was the extremely difficult property market in Singapore after TDSR.  Recall their indicating as much during one of their financial qr reporting last yr.  If not,  their developments at E n R Maisons and the Quinn might have moved better and they probably would have been quite profitable and declared a dividend without having to seek their fortunes outside Singapore.  So, fingers crossed.  the move to Indonesia might be generally well intended, albeit the way it was done probably disadvantaged minority shareholders, and shareholders may still see daylight yet. dragonn      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 19:46) Posted: I guess I' ll load more at the current price and really hope sukmawati can change her heart alittle bit, push the company profit higher and give us at least a little bit of dividend.

 

To be fair to this company though, the catalyst for their move into Indonesia was the extremely difficult property market in Singapore after TDSR.  Recall their indicating as much during one of their financial qr reporting last yr.  If not,  their developments at E n R Maisons and the Quinn might have moved better and they probably would have been quite profitable and declared a dividend without having to seek their fortunes outside Singapore.  So, fingers crossed.  the move to Indonesia might be generally well intended, albeit the way it was done probably disadvantaged minority shareholders, and shareholders may still see daylight yet.

dragonn      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 19:46) Posted: I guess I' ll load more at the current price and really hope sukmawati can change her heart alittle bit, push the company profit higher and give us at least a little bit of dividend. kusje58      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 19:43) Posted: That might be true in general but companies actually have a reputation to upkeep and won' t do hanky panky stuff for a little money as they are in it for the long haul and not such short term gains. In any case, let' s hope they will be spurred to actually do something for the company now that it is more substantially theirs.

 

I guess I' ll load more at the current price and really hope sukmawati can change her heart alittle bit, push the company profit higher and give us at least a little bit of dividend.

kusje58      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 19:43) Posted: That might be true in general but companies actually have a reputation to upkeep and won' t do hanky panky stuff for a little money as they are in it for the long haul and not such short term gains. In any case, let' s hope they will be spurred to actually do something for the company now that it is more substantially theirs. Qanghoo      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 15:54) Posted: Lesson to remember, when we invest as minority shareholders, this happens most of the time.  No one is gonna to bother abt us and/or there ones who want to implement something can always find ways to hanky panky around.  Nothing more we can do.  Period.

 

That might be true in general but companies actually have a reputation to upkeep and won' t do hanky panky stuff for a little money as they are in it for the long haul and not such short term gains.

In any case, let' s hope they will be spurred to actually do something for the company now that it is more substantially theirs.

Qanghoo      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 15:54) Posted: Lesson to remember, when we invest as minority shareholders, this happens most of the time.  No one is gonna to bother abt us and/or there ones who want to implement something can always find ways to hanky panky around.  Nothing more we can do.  Period. xiaofang_      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 15:46) Posted: Exactly! The off market deal was CEO' s married deal to 01 shareholder at 0.7c when stock was 0.008/0.009 on that day. (300m shares)  Takes a normal IQ person to guess that is a YES vote. Since he (CEO) can' t vote.

 

Lesson to remember, when we invest as minority shareholders, this happens most of the time.  No one is gonna to bother abt us and/or there ones who want to implement something can always find ways to hanky panky around.  Nothing more we can do.  Period.

xiaofang_      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 15:46) Posted: Exactly! The off market deal was CEO' s married deal to 01 shareholder at 0.7c when stock was 0.008/0.009 on that day. (300m shares)  Takes a normal IQ person to guess that is a YES vote. Since he (CEO) can' t vote.  kusje58      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 14:28) Posted: Actually, opposition was quite strong. The vote was passed by 556 mil to 335 mil (62.4% to 37.6%).  If you take into account the 300 mil shares which changed hands in an off market transaction just last week and presume it voted yes under the 556 mil then actually the results would have been 256 to 335.

 

Exactly! The off market deal was CEO' s married deal to 01 shareholder at 0.7c when stock was 0.008/0.009 on that day. (300m shares) 

Takes a normal IQ person to guess that is a YES vote. Since he (CEO) can' t vote. 

kusje58      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 14:28) Posted: Actually, opposition was quite strong. The vote was passed by 556 mil to 335 mil (62.4% to 37.6%).  If you take into account the 300 mil shares which changed hands in an off market transaction just last week and presume it voted yes under the 556 mil then actually the results would have been 256 to 335. haruta      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 11:23) Posted: Got attend egm or not u guys? Resolution passed liao. Not much objection lehz. So how?

 

Thats quite true as well.
Anyway i believe they will definitely find ways to approve the egm

kusje58      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 14:28) Posted: Actually, opposition was quite strong. The vote was passed by 556 mil to 335 mil (62.4% to 37.6%).  If you take into account the 300 mil shares which changed hands in an off market transaction just last week and presume it voted yes under the 556 mil then actually the results would have been 256 to 335. haruta      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 11:23) Posted: Got attend egm or not u guys? Resolution passed liao. Not much objection lehz. So how?

 

Actually, opposition was quite strong. The vote was passed by 556 mil to 335 mil (62.4% to 37.6%). 

If you take into account the 300 mil shares which changed hands in an off market transaction just last week and presume it voted yes under the 556 mil then actually the results would have been 256 to 335.

haruta      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 11:23) Posted: Got attend egm or not u guys? Resolution passed liao. Not much objection lehz. So how?

 

U should have gone egm and listen since u are vested.

dragonn      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 11:52) Posted: Did you attend the egm? haruta      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 11:23) Posted: Got attend egm or not u guys? Resolution passed liao. Not much objection lehz. So how?

 

Did you attend the egm?

haruta      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 11:23) Posted: Got attend egm or not u guys? Resolution passed liao. Not much objection lehz. So how?

 

I"m expecting a super bull soon.
Shes clearly injecting her biz in just shes not happy to share her wealth

xiaofang_      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 11:17) Posted: I'm waiting for bull market when even shit stocks can fly and get out without losing $. Yourself? dragonn      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 08:17) Posted: Yup true, But can i ask, will you sell your shares off given such situation

 

Got attend egm or not u guys? Resolution passed liao. Not much objection lehz. So how?

 

I'm waiting for bull market when even shit stocks can fly and get out without losing $.

Yourself?

dragonn      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 08:17) Posted: Yup true, But can i ask, will you sell your shares off given such situation? xiaofang_      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 02:20) Posted: 1.The family is rich by birth. Stay GCB in the most expensive part of sg. 2. They became major shareholders so no one in their way. Paid their way to be in position. No respect for that. They just need to have a "job" so that don't look like good for nothing in their mega rich family. Who else will pay them $2m a year to be CEO? other than your mother company? You think they care what the market cap is or how their share price or company balance sheet?!! More likely this company is just a more like for them to "kill time"!! N be salaried executives. 3. Their management style is totally not impressive. Check their annual reports. But they get big fat cheque. Zero respect for that. 3. They don't care Abt us the small shareholders. Regret not taking advice from earlier investors in the forum. 4. Kept boasting about the family biz.. But ripe us off with this dilution to ripe us further.. Yes, maybe coy will make peanuts.. Most of it will go the paycheck. They will not go burst. But u and I make not make money. Nil div. likely to be dead investment..

 

Yup true,
But can i ask, will you sell your shares off given such situation?

xiaofang_      ( Date: 14-Oct-2014 02:20) Posted: 1.The family is rich by birth. Stay GCB in the most expensive part of sg. 2. They became major shareholders so no one in their way. Paid their way to be in position. No respect for that. They just need to have a "job" so that don't look like good for nothing in their mega rich family. Who else will pay them $2m a year to be CEO? other than your mother company? You think they care what the market cap is or how their share price or company balance sheet?!! More likely this company is just a more like for them to "kill time"!! N be salaried executives. 3. Their management style is totally not impressive. Check their annual reports. But they get big fat cheque. Zero respect for that. 3. They don't care Abt us the small shareholders. Regret not taking advice from earlier investors in the forum. 4. Kept boasting about the family biz.. But ripe us off with this dilution to ripe us further.. Yes, maybe coy will make peanuts.. Most of it will go the paycheck. They will not go burst. But u and I make not make money. Nil div. likely to be dead investment.. dragonn      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 20:35) Posted: So keeping is a good idea or selling? Anyways, I thought stock is a place where they want to show their value and networth of how strong they are? Why Sukmawati Widjaja wants to show that she' s someone who draws super high pay making her company from earning become losing and keep the stock counter low low low?

 

1.The family is rich by birth. Stay GCB in the most expensive part of sg.
2. They became major shareholders so no one in their way. Paid their way to be in position. No respect for that. They just need to have a "job" so that don't look like good for nothing in their mega rich family. Who else will pay them $2m a year to be CEO? other than your mother company? You think they care what the market cap is or how their share price or company balance sheet?!! More likely this company is just a more like for them to "kill time"!! N be salaried executives.
3. Their management style is totally not impressive. Check their annual reports. But they get big fat cheque. Zero respect for that.
3. They don't care Abt us the small shareholders. Regret not taking advice from earlier investors in the forum.
4. Kept boasting about the family biz.. But ripe us off with this dilution to ripe us further.. Yes, maybe coy will make peanuts.. Most of it will go the paycheck. They will not go burst. But u and I make not make money. Nil div. likely to be dead investment..

dragonn      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 20:35) Posted: So keeping is a good idea or selling? Anyways, I thought stock is a place where they want to show their value and networth of how strong they are? Why Sukmawati Widjaja wants to show that she' s someone who draws super high pay making her company from earning become losing and keep the stock counter low low low? jm2212      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 17:49) Posted: we' re all the suckers. i own another coy Longcheer, coy mgt did a buy out of the profitable division after coy started to make profit, they used the dividend pay out to buy over the shares, don' t need to come out $ but just take over the company. another one is Si2i, rights issues after rights issues and father/son/daughter all on board taking big pay check, bought over company and shut down later. can you vote against them? of course u can, but will it change the fact? no, it won' t as these people already gathered enough shares. any outlets for retail investors (as a matter of fact, i own mil of shares for each of these companies)? i dont know

 

The son actually sold the shares thru a married deal which is actually below market value.. Now that halt..

dragonn      ( Date: 13-Oct-2014 08:42) Posted: I believe this is to maximize her benefit, anyway remember the other day her son sold 300,000,000 shares at 0.007? I believe this is to maintain the average trading at 0.007 plus instead of 0.008 to 0.009, purely speculative, so again it can be mentioned that the average trading price from ... to ... is 0.007plus What do you guys think? unique6      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 14:48) Posted:   I just think Sukmawati is bloody  greedy. It' s a left pocket right pocket so why does she need to milk all the TG minority shareholders. Even if the swap ratio was done a at TG NTA 1.16c or if the Indo company was done at a cheaper and more reasonable price, it would still benefit her. On the profits side, Suryamas is not generating $1-3m which is peanuts compared to the acquisition price of S$153m. It' s like PE of 50-150x. Buying a simple REIT already yields 507% with less development risk. The TG losses are because of the huge salaries. The Widjaja family is divided between the smarter ones and the dumber ones. Golden agri and Frankie did well in the last 10 years, Sukmawati on the other hand has a reputation for incompetence and failed to deliver. Her side of the family has lower intellectual genes, ie the son and daughters all failures in their education and careers (my friend is their family friend), and this is highly likely due to the fact that Sukmawati married her own cousin from the first marriage. Kenneth is the 2nd husband. I mean during the days of European kings and queens of the 13-16th century sure the idea of marrying your blue blooded family might make sense, but genetic science now shows that inter-family marriage breeds bad genes. She should know this. In a way it' s disgusting. Anyway, can write them off.. morons don' t get smarter in time. Go see them at the EGM. They are arrogant. No respect. Born into rich family yet waste opportunities and lazy. Plus arrogant. And pretend to be Christians. No redemption.

 

I believe this is to maximize her benefit, anyway remember the other day her son sold 300,000,000 shares at 0.007? I believe this is to maintain the average trading at 0.007 plus instead of 0.008 to 0.009, purely speculative, so again it can be mentioned that the average trading price from ... to ... is 0.007plus What do you guys think?

unique6      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 14:48) Posted:   I just think Sukmawati is bloody  greedy. It' s a left pocket right pocket so why does she need to milk all the TG minority shareholders. Even if the swap ratio was done a at TG NTA 1.16c or if the Indo company was done at a cheaper and more reasonable price, it would still benefit her. On the profits side, Suryamas is not generating $1-3m which is peanuts compared to the acquisition price of S$153m. It' s like PE of 50-150x. Buying a simple REIT already yields 507% with less development risk. The TG losses are because of the huge salaries. The Widjaja family is divided between the smarter ones and the dumber ones. Golden agri and Frankie did well in the last 10 years, Sukmawati on the other hand has a reputation for incompetence and failed to deliver. Her side of the family has lower intellectual genes, ie the son and daughters all failures in their education and careers (my friend is their family friend), and this is highly likely due to the fact that Sukmawati married her own cousin from the first marriage. Kenneth is the 2nd husband. I mean during the days of European kings and queens of the 13-16th century sure the idea of marrying your blue blooded family might make sense, but genetic science now shows that inter-family marriage breeds bad genes. She should know this. In a way it' s disgusting. Anyway, can write them off.. morons don' t get smarter in time. Go see them at the EGM. They are arrogant. No respect. Born into rich family yet waste opportunities and lazy. Plus arrogant. And pretend to be Christians. No redemption.   dragonn      ( Date: 08-Oct-2014 20:54) Posted: Yeah, this is massive dilution. I am standing on both sides actually. Lets give her some credits as well.   She is injecting her profitable buisness from Suryamas into Top Global. Upon injecting this buisness, she didn' t want to make big losses, therefore diluting the shares of Top Global to benefit her upon successful trade.   The foresight for this injection would be a dilution from 0.0117 NTA to 0.0096 NTA (at the current price of 0.008) it' s 0.004 undervalue before acqusition and  will be  0.002 undervalued as a group after acqusition. (At the same time she ripped off 0.002 by giving herself 30.1% discount, using value of the  traded day as an excuse instead of value of company, to pass  this)   However do take note with her injection our earnings per share would increase from -(0.0465) [-$5,300,000]   to 0.0023 [$700,000] So we' ve have to give her the credit to bring her family buisness into Top Global.   Since we know that after the transaction 0.0096 would be the NTA per share, at the current value of 0.007-0.009 would it still be worth to join her?

 

So keeping is a good idea or selling?

Anyways, I thought stock is a place where they want to show their value and networth of how strong they are?

Why Sukmawati Widjaja wants to show that she' s someone who draws super high pay making her company from earning become losing and keep the stock counter low low low?

jm2212      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 17:49) Posted: we' re all the suckers. i own another coy Longcheer, coy mgt did a buy out of the profitable division after coy started to make profit, they used the dividend pay out to buy over the shares, don' t need to come out $ but just take over the company. another one is Si2i, rights issues after rights issues and father/son/daughter all on board taking big pay check, bought over company and shut down later. can you vote against them? of course u can, but will it change the fact? no, it won' t as these people already gathered enough shares. any outlets for retail investors (as a matter of fact, i own mil of shares for each of these companies)? i dont know   xiaofang_      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 17:36) Posted: Think EGM if we all vote against them they may wake up their idea!! That small retailers are not buying their crap.

 

we' re all the suckers. i own another coy Longcheer, coy mgt did a buy out of the profitable division after coy started to make profit, they used the dividend pay out to buy over the shares, don' t need to come out $ but just take over the company. another one is Si2i, rights issues after rights issues and father/son/daughter all on board taking big pay check, bought over company and shut down later.

can you vote against them? of course u can, but will it change the fact? no, it won' t as these people already gathered enough shares.

any outlets for retail investors (as a matter of fact, i own mil of shares for each of these companies)? i dont know

 

xiaofang_      ( Date: 10-Oct-2014 17:36) Posted: Think EGM if we all vote against them they may wake up their idea!! That small retailers are not buying their crap.