Post Reply
9961-9980 of 10248
the big holders original intentions was to buy yzjsb not yzjfh.
yzjfh is given to them free. so cost is zero. they no want and sell at any price is profit.
the biggest seller has sold. rest is other sellers. pattern look more like someone holding down
price to collect cheap. no buy back also price no go down.
if press too low others will come in to collect as well.
buyer need to have patient. once collection done and volume dry up. price will up.
yzjfh is given to them free. so cost is zero. they no want and sell at any price is profit.
the biggest seller has sold. rest is other sellers. pattern look more like someone holding down
price to collect cheap. no buy back also price no go down.
if press too low others will come in to collect as well.
buyer need to have patient. once collection done and volume dry up. price will up.
@soeteono,
Eh ... no, these ultra big sellers do not seems likely the " normal" big holders that are selling to get out. Big holders intending to get out will want to maximise their profits or minimise their losses by trying to sell at the highest possible prices, meaning they will pace their sellings as the prices moves up. The selling actions that we repeatedly saw even until yesterday were brute high volume selldown actions that would force the prices back down the trading range every time big buyers attempted to buy up.
Eh ... no, these ultra big sellers do not seems likely the " normal" big holders that are selling to get out. Big holders intending to get out will want to maximise their profits or minimise their losses by trying to sell at the highest possible prices, meaning they will pace their sellings as the prices moves up. The selling actions that we repeatedly saw even until yesterday were brute high volume selldown actions that would force the prices back down the trading range every time big buyers attempted to buy up.
Some big holders just want to get out whenever there is a rebound of price , for reason they know best . Hope the reason is not negative one.
volvo125 ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 23:21) Posted:
|
@pkli899, the frustration is actually not so much with the coy but more with the mysterious ultra big sellers behind the scene that are dead religious on throwing a spanner down to spoil the soup every time buyers attempted to buy up. These ultra big sellers are suppressing YFH price down artificially for only god knows the reasons ...
With LPS already in the pocket and with a huge ~S$1.9B quota, the transformation pace of YFH on recycling the DI funds out for offshore projects deployment will be greatly accelerated. As YFH moves towards the 50% offshore target, its performance should far outpace its historical performance due to 1) much lower corporate tax on the SG income portion, 2) avoidance of withholding tax for dividends distribution, 3) lower impact of currency translations on SGD reporting, 4) higher average combined margins on wealth and asset management businesses as compared to DI, 5) QDLP will further boost YFH AUM and up the income generation once the licence is well in place.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
This is how I interpret the LPS news release on 25 Nov 2022. LPS is a BIG leap forward for YFH.
There are generally 3 ways for YFH to transfer funds out of China to overseas via :-
1. Declaring dividends for payout in SG to shareholders, but this will attract a 5~10% withholding tax from PRC. This was the only way for YFH until getting this LPS, as QDLP is still pending.
2. QDLP, in which YFH can raise RMB from local institutions and UHNW individuals (eg. family offices) for offshore investments. The Jiangsu authority has awarded YFH the allocation quota but the licence to operate is still pending. Note that this scheme is meant to raise additional funds from the PRC market (specifically from the Jiangsu Province) for offshore investments that will serve to boost YFH AUM further from its prevailing S$4.6B, and not as a legit avenue to transfer the recycled DI funds out from YFH balance sheet for overseas investments.
3. LPS, this will be the primary avenue going forward for YFH to deploy China funds to overseas investments due to the huge ~S$1.9B quota available, negligible cost as interest expense is eliminated at group level, and the opportunity to centrally facilitate and ease cash management and movement because of this &ldquo flexible&rdquo intra coy loan treatment.
4. There is a 4th way in which YFH could only use once, which was at the onset during the spin off listing in an overseas Exchange (SGX) when S$480M was approved by the China government for the overseas target spin off investment.
China has very strict capital control so prior to getting LPS, the RMB cash in China and SGD/USD cash in SG could not be synergistically deployed together to fund overseas investment. With LPS approved, YFH could now mobilise up to ~S$1.9B to SG at will with negligible cost. What this mean are :-
a. YFH is still subject to China strict capital control but is now up to huge ~S$1.9B quota (this quota likely excluding the S$480M already in SG). With this ~S$1.9B that can be freely deployed at will by YFH for overseas investment in the form of intra coy loans, the RMB cash reserve in China and the overseas investments now has established a dynamic bridge or a link, thus allowing this so called centralised management of cash in the form of intra coy loans up to ~S$1.9B.
b. As long as YFH SG (or the overseas subsidiaries) continues to pay interests on the intra coy loans to YFH China, the subsidiaries can keep or retire the loans at will at their disposal for their investment purposes. These interest payments are left pocket to right pocket so the cost to YFH is net zero at group level due to eliminations.
c. Without LPS and come 2Q2023 when YFH needs to transfer fund from China to pay dividends for FY22 performance, YFH or shareholders will need to bear a 5~10% withholding tax. However, with the funds already in YFH SG in the form of intra coy loans funding projects that are making profits or as working capitals, the payment of dividends could be disbursed in SG which is at Tier 1 taxation, meaning no further taxation on dividends.
d. LPS is a big leap forward because YFH no longer need to wait its previously guided 3~5 years to hit the 50% offshore target due likely to the stringent China capital control. The ~S$1.9B quota is more than enough to lift YFH offshore investment to 50% immediately, assuming all these appropriate investments are available, duly appraised, and are ready for funds deployment. YFH revenues and incomes projections going forward in FY23 and beyond can and will now be greatly accelerated as long as Toe and his men in SG could bring in the appropriate duly appraised projects, no longer restricted by the fund limit transfer restrictions from China.
e. At the eventual 50% offshore target in which the pace can now be accelerated, the income generated through the YFH SG portion will be taxed at a much lower rate of 17% (instead of 25% in China). And the future cash flows generated by YFH SG in SG could certainly be deployed to pay dividends to avoid the 5~10% withholding tax from China (even if we are assuming LPS in the form of intra coy loans is strictly project specific disbursement and could not be disbursed out to subsidiaries generally)
Again, this is how I read YFH going forward. I am not a trained accountant so any Bro who is CPA trained ( such as emailpeter &hellip ) may be able to validate some of my observations &hellip such as are these intra coy loans likely disbursed on specific projects only or generally, the theoretical possibility of paying dividend from SG to do away with the China withholding tax &hellip
With LPS already in the pocket and with a huge ~S$1.9B quota, the transformation pace of YFH on recycling the DI funds out for offshore projects deployment will be greatly accelerated. As YFH moves towards the 50% offshore target, its performance should far outpace its historical performance due to 1) much lower corporate tax on the SG income portion, 2) avoidance of withholding tax for dividends distribution, 3) lower impact of currency translations on SGD reporting, 4) higher average combined margins on wealth and asset management businesses as compared to DI, 5) QDLP will further boost YFH AUM and up the income generation once the licence is well in place.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
This is how I interpret the LPS news release on 25 Nov 2022. LPS is a BIG leap forward for YFH.
There are generally 3 ways for YFH to transfer funds out of China to overseas via :-
1. Declaring dividends for payout in SG to shareholders, but this will attract a 5~10% withholding tax from PRC. This was the only way for YFH until getting this LPS, as QDLP is still pending.
2. QDLP, in which YFH can raise RMB from local institutions and UHNW individuals (eg. family offices) for offshore investments. The Jiangsu authority has awarded YFH the allocation quota but the licence to operate is still pending. Note that this scheme is meant to raise additional funds from the PRC market (specifically from the Jiangsu Province) for offshore investments that will serve to boost YFH AUM further from its prevailing S$4.6B, and not as a legit avenue to transfer the recycled DI funds out from YFH balance sheet for overseas investments.
3. LPS, this will be the primary avenue going forward for YFH to deploy China funds to overseas investments due to the huge ~S$1.9B quota available, negligible cost as interest expense is eliminated at group level, and the opportunity to centrally facilitate and ease cash management and movement because of this &ldquo flexible&rdquo intra coy loan treatment.
4. There is a 4th way in which YFH could only use once, which was at the onset during the spin off listing in an overseas Exchange (SGX) when S$480M was approved by the China government for the overseas target spin off investment.
China has very strict capital control so prior to getting LPS, the RMB cash in China and SGD/USD cash in SG could not be synergistically deployed together to fund overseas investment. With LPS approved, YFH could now mobilise up to ~S$1.9B to SG at will with negligible cost. What this mean are :-
a. YFH is still subject to China strict capital control but is now up to huge ~S$1.9B quota (this quota likely excluding the S$480M already in SG). With this ~S$1.9B that can be freely deployed at will by YFH for overseas investment in the form of intra coy loans, the RMB cash reserve in China and the overseas investments now has established a dynamic bridge or a link, thus allowing this so called centralised management of cash in the form of intra coy loans up to ~S$1.9B.
b. As long as YFH SG (or the overseas subsidiaries) continues to pay interests on the intra coy loans to YFH China, the subsidiaries can keep or retire the loans at will at their disposal for their investment purposes. These interest payments are left pocket to right pocket so the cost to YFH is net zero at group level due to eliminations.
c. Without LPS and come 2Q2023 when YFH needs to transfer fund from China to pay dividends for FY22 performance, YFH or shareholders will need to bear a 5~10% withholding tax. However, with the funds already in YFH SG in the form of intra coy loans funding projects that are making profits or as working capitals, the payment of dividends could be disbursed in SG which is at Tier 1 taxation, meaning no further taxation on dividends.
d. LPS is a big leap forward because YFH no longer need to wait its previously guided 3~5 years to hit the 50% offshore target due likely to the stringent China capital control. The ~S$1.9B quota is more than enough to lift YFH offshore investment to 50% immediately, assuming all these appropriate investments are available, duly appraised, and are ready for funds deployment. YFH revenues and incomes projections going forward in FY23 and beyond can and will now be greatly accelerated as long as Toe and his men in SG could bring in the appropriate duly appraised projects, no longer restricted by the fund limit transfer restrictions from China.
e. At the eventual 50% offshore target in which the pace can now be accelerated, the income generated through the YFH SG portion will be taxed at a much lower rate of 17% (instead of 25% in China). And the future cash flows generated by YFH SG in SG could certainly be deployed to pay dividends to avoid the 5~10% withholding tax from China (even if we are assuming LPS in the form of intra coy loans is strictly project specific disbursement and could not be disbursed out to subsidiaries generally)
Again, this is how I read YFH going forward. I am not a trained accountant so any Bro who is CPA trained ( such as emailpeter &hellip ) may be able to validate some of my observations &hellip such as are these intra coy loans likely disbursed on specific projects only or generally, the theoretical possibility of paying dividend from SG to do away with the China withholding tax &hellip
pkli899 ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 20:16) Posted:
|
The straw that breaks my camel' s back would be
- No dividend declared.
- Insiders like Ren or Toe selling.
- Fail to divest outside china or to invest in SEA as envisaged in their plan.
If any of the above happens, just show mgt is BS or all talks only.
Definitely red flags to me.
Vested.
- No dividend declared.
- Insiders like Ren or Toe selling.
- Fail to divest outside china or to invest in SEA as envisaged in their plan.
If any of the above happens, just show mgt is BS or all talks only.
Definitely red flags to me.
Vested.
this one is untested after listing. they change model from loan business and location out of china. so 2 new thing at 1 go. the uncertainty a lot. only thing i base on is the old man has a track record of turning a ship yard around, has been in the rich community for quite a while. china recent policy has been to help the poor. lifting poor to a middle class level. the idea is good. the actions a bit rough. so some rich people have tendency to move part of wealth out of china. all these means he has a chance of success.
some more he so lucky that china changing to lng from coal. which will require more lng ship. yzj build the ship they can provide some other actions.
the other thing is he holding a lot cash in this time when cash is increasing in buying power. that is good business acumen.
recent link up with temasek units is good as they have a constant flow of business ideas searching for capital. don' t just look at the ftx failure there are many success not reported.
mezzanine investment can be very rewarding.if they just hit one unicorn they will be view differently.
some more he so lucky that china changing to lng from coal. which will require more lng ship. yzj build the ship they can provide some other actions.
the other thing is he holding a lot cash in this time when cash is increasing in buying power. that is good business acumen.
recent link up with temasek units is good as they have a constant flow of business ideas searching for capital. don' t just look at the ftx failure there are many success not reported.
mezzanine investment can be very rewarding.if they just hit one unicorn they will be view differently.
Hahaha, don' t get me wrong, despite deeply in the red, me no frustration.
I still have faith, will be keeping for few years at least.
I still have faith, will be keeping for few years at least.
Typically, the share price is a reflection of stock future? lol
pasttime ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 19:33) Posted:
|
Well said. Thanks .
Segarvale ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 19:51) Posted:
|
@soeteono and pkli899
Yes, i fully understand the agony of being in the red..my leg also deep in the mud..even after my recent 34.5c huge buy up when ren news on taking over the air strike once the 10% sbb mandate reached..average is slightly under 40c, but am still positive on this counter...i dun see anything fundamentally wrong in this new business, not at this moment...one thing for sure, if rens or the toe sells their shareholding, then i will just cut losses. No question asked. Thats my baseline. 😝
Yes, i fully understand the agony of being in the red..my leg also deep in the mud..even after my recent 34.5c huge buy up when ren news on taking over the air strike once the 10% sbb mandate reached..average is slightly under 40c, but am still positive on this counter...i dun see anything fundamentally wrong in this new business, not at this moment...one thing for sure, if rens or the toe sells their shareholding, then i will just cut losses. No question asked. Thats my baseline. 😝
Exactly ! Spot on.
pasttime ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 19:33) Posted:
|
only listed for a few months how can say long.
it take about 2 years to build business in a new country to become profitable.
it take about 2 years to build business in a new country to become profitable.
Many are long but frustrated la.
Dejected in fact, until lost cool & started shouting bad stuff.
Dejected in fact, until lost cool & started shouting bad stuff.
Just saying the fact , with all these " positive " news , price still heading south . Maybe more than positive
Segarvale ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 19:16) Posted:
|
I dun short stock la..i only long...easier to short indexes...fast money in and out..few hundreds dollar kopi money every few days..hehe..sometime big rout easily few thousands..anyway, not for the weak heart..so you dun recommend short la...then stay positive if you are long in this counter..whats the point of grumbling when good news pop? Simply dun understand..😂
soeteono ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 18:58) Posted:
|
Chill currently YZJFH undervalued by a lot and not much retail interest.
More news incoming through hopefully they can clarify on future cash allocation.
Now only got plan but no concrete action, everyone waiting....
More news incoming through hopefully they can clarify on future cash allocation.
Now only got plan but no concrete action, everyone waiting....
Did I say short ? you shorted ?
Segarvale ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 18:54) Posted:
|
How you know market is slapping the share price because of these decisions? You mean appointment of big name can short? Short at what price let us know then we can profit together. Timeline as well. Positive news leh...no meh? Scratch my head..
soeteono ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 18:36) Posted:
|
Big name big gun but share price is slapping these decisions
MambaFinancial89 ( Date: 28-Nov-2022 18:13) Posted:
|
Nov 28: Yangzijiang Financial Appoints Ex-EDBI Managing Partner to Head the Groups Direct Investments, Global market Ex-China
Third press release this week. Hard to fault management for not keeping retail investors informed...
Third press release this week. Hard to fault management for not keeping retail investors informed...