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REMOVE SABANA REIT MANAGER Post Reply Rate topic
HVRRVH Elite	19-Feb-2017 08:46        HVRRVH About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Can we get a respond from the trustee on this to be absolutely clear?
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W32012 Member	19-Feb-2017 00:03        W32012 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Regulatory actions is always treated differently from corporate actions.  Unitholders should DYODD and not be misled by others who selectively read only parts that is beneficial to them.  The CLOB saga is a good reminder that the government will not have your back covered (http://www.mas.gov.sg/news-and-publications/parliamentary-replies/1998/dpm-lee-s-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-clob--12-oct-1998.aspx).
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 23:02        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Thanks for confirming that the phrase " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" means MAS asking the Trustee to change the Manager W32012      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 17:29) Posted: We need to differentiate between regulator-initiated action and unitholders/shareholders initiated action. In a regulator-initiated action, such action is only taken as a resultant of breach in regulatory or legislative guidelines (i.e. non-compliances, bankruptacy, fraud etc). Hence MAS, as a regulatory body can take action to remove a Reit manager, who is in breach of the regulatory guideline and such removal must be immediate (i.e. you cannot leave a bankrupt or a charlatan in change of a reit for a single additional day). In event of this, MAS legislate a rule that bind the trustee as the party responsible to appoint a replacement manager. In a unitholders/shareholders initiated action, the basis is unitholders/shareholders unhappiness with current status quo rather than a regulatory breach. This is then a corporate action that do not fall under regulatory breach. In corporate action, the party initiating action is then expected to come up with alternative plan to sought buy-in and support from all other unitholders/shareholders, with intention to implement their plan. If the trustee is not part of this action (i.e. privy to the corporate action), they cannot be expected to be the one to look for the replacement Reit manager on behalf of the party initiating corporate action.
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W32012 Member	18-Feb-2017 17:29        W32012 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	We need to differentiate between regulator-initiated action and unitholders/shareholders initiated action. In a regulator-initiated action, such action is only taken as a resultant of breach in regulatory or legislative guidelines (i.e. non-compliances, bankruptacy, fraud etc). Hence MAS, as a regulatory body can take action to remove a Reit manager, who is in breach of the regulatory guideline and such removal must be immediate (i.e. you cannot leave a bankrupt or a charlatan in change of a reit for a single additional day). In event of this, MAS legislate a rule that bind the trustee as the party responsible to appoint a replacement manager. In a unitholders/shareholders initiated action, the basis is unitholders/shareholders unhappiness with current status quo rather than a regulatory breach. This is then a corporate action that do not fall under regulatory breach. In corporate action, the party initiating action is then expected to come up with alternative plan to sought buy-in and support from all other unitholders/shareholders, with intention to implement their plan. If the trustee is not part of this action (i.e. privy to the corporate action), they cannot be expected to be the one to look for the replacement Reit manager on behalf of the party initiating corporate action.
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laksaman57 Supreme	18-Feb-2017 16:34        laksaman57 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	As long as there is no specific timeline, written black & white, in the ipo prospectus or MAS reit guideline or trustee deed or any past court judgement, it's not impossible that it can be interpreted as immediate. Just as a tree that fell across land managed by LTA and NEA, the obvious in the public eye become not-so-obvious in the public sector. Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 16:13) Posted: Sabana Reit IPO prospectus has a total of 483 pages, not every statement in the prospectus need expert explanation. We do not need expert help to understand such a simple statement like " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" . Obviously, it could NOT means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement. kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:58) Posted: Are you a lawyer? Do you have the professional knowledge to judge? Or are you just refusing to come out from the lie? I talked to MAS and they confirmed to me that the Manager ceases to function the moment the resolutions are passed. And I talked to a lawyer on this and he agreed that this is what the Trust Deed says. You think that your understand is always right and MAS and the lawyer interpreted it wrongly?
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 16:13        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Sabana Reit IPO prospectus has a total of 483 pages, not every statement in the prospectus need expert explanation. We do not need expert help to understand such a simple statement like " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" . Obviously, it could NOT means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement. kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:58) Posted: Are you a lawyer? Do you have the professional knowledge to judge? Or are you just refusing to come out from the lie? I talked to MAS and they confirmed to me that the Manager ceases to function the moment the resolutions are passed. And I talked to a lawyer on this and he agreed that this is what the Trust Deed says. You think that your understand is always right and MAS and the lawyer interpreted it wrongly? Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:56) Posted: But my understanding is MAS is asking the Trustee to change the Manager.
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 16:06        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I do not see the need to have a lawyer to understand such a simple statement like &ldquo MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager&rdquo , obviously, it could not means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement. kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:58) Posted: Are you a lawyer? Do you have the professional knowledge to judge? Or are you just refusing to come out from the lie? I talked to MAS and they confirmed to me that the Manager ceases to function the moment the resolutions are passed. And I talked to a lawyer on this and he agreed that this is what the Trust Deed says. You think that your understand is always right and MAS and the lawyer interpreted it wrongly? Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:56) Posted: But my understanding is MAS is asking the Trustee to change the Manager.
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kohyeekan Member	18-Feb-2017 15:58        kohyeekan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Are you a lawyer? Do you have the professional knowledge to judge? Or are you just refusing to come out from the lie? I talked to MAS and they confirmed to me that the Manager ceases to function the moment the resolutions are passed. And I talked to a lawyer on this and he agreed that this is what the Trust Deed says. You think that your understand is always right and MAS and the lawyer interpreted it wrongly? Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:56) Posted: But my understanding is MAS is asking the Trustee to change the Manager. kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:48) Posted: of course, this is exactly what it means. You can talk to a lawyer, and this is what it exactly means. I talked to a lawyer on that, and I believe that Mr. Low did that. He can call Mr. Florian to clarify. What is not clear from the Trust Deed is only how a new management team shall be formed. This is very clear that when the resolution is passed, the Manager ceases to function.
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 15:56        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	But my understanding is MAS is asking the Trustee to change the Manager. kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:48) Posted: of course, this is exactly what it means. You can talk to a lawyer, and this is what it exactly means. I talked to a lawyer on that, and I believe that Mr. Low did that. He can call Mr. Florian to clarify. What is not clear from the Trust Deed is only how a new management team shall be formed. This is very clear that when the resolution is passed, the Manager ceases to function. Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:44) Posted: Do you believe that when the experts write " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" , it means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement?
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kohyeekan Member	18-Feb-2017 15:48        kohyeekan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	of course, this is exactly what it means. You can talk to a lawyer, and this is what it exactly means. I talked to a lawyer on that, and I believe that Mr. Low did that. He can call Mr. Florian to clarify. What is not clear from the Trust Deed is only how a new management team shall be formed. This is very clear that when the resolution is passed, the Manager ceases to function. Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:44) Posted: Do you believe that when the experts write " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" , it means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement? kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:39) Posted: This is what MAS said. I have actually recorded down the conversation if you want to hear it privately.
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 15:44        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Do you believe that when the experts write " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" , it means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement? kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:39) Posted: This is what MAS said. I have actually recorded down the conversation if you want to hear it privately. Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:32) Posted: Therefore the assertion that " the moment you pass the resolution, the Manager is gone, you don' t have a staff to help you to collect the rentals and to renew the leases" is incredible, but somehow it manages to create doubt and causes many ordinary unitholders to worry that the resolution to remove the Manager will cause more harm to Sabana reit.
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kohyeekan Member	18-Feb-2017 15:39        kohyeekan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	This is what MAS said. I have actually recorded down the conversation if you want to hear it privately. Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:32) Posted: Therefore the assertion that " the moment you pass the resolution, the Manager is gone, you don' t have a staff to help you to collect the rentals and to renew the leases" is incredible, but somehow it manages to create doubt and causes many ordinary unitholders to worry that the resolution to remove the Manager will cause more harm to Sabana reit. Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:24) Posted: Sabana Reit IPO Prospectus was written by a group of experts. When the experts write " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" , NO ONE will believe that it means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement. Obviously,   it means MAS is asking the Trustee to change the Manager.          Similarly, when they write " vote to remove the Manager" it means to change the Manager.
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 15:32        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Therefore the assertion that " the moment you pass the resolution, the Manager is gone, you don' t have a staff to help you to collect the rentals and to renew the leases" is incredible, but somehow it manages to create doubt and causes many ordinary unitholders to worry that the resolution to remove the Manager will cause more harm to Sabana reit. Fangqq      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:24) Posted: Sabana Reit IPO Prospectus was written by a group of experts. When the experts write " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" , NO ONE will believe that it means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement. Obviously,   it means MAS is asking the Trustee to change the Manager.          Similarly, when they write " vote to remove the Manager" it means to change the Manager.  kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:16) Posted: Dear Mr. Low, I didn' t want to quarrel with you but since you put pointless accusations, I need to clarify.  1) I called you once only after we stopped working together. That is a coutesy call after I talked to MAS, to tell you that MAS clarified that a) the Manager ceases to exist right after the resolutions are passed, b) the risk of banks recalling the loan is real, and c) the MAS sees this as different opinions on how to manage the REIT and does not see any potentila frauds. You refused to listen and only want to push forward your agenda and even twisted my post in your facebook to false claim that MAS supports your plan. 2) The creation of the facebook group is TOTALLY my idea and there is nothing to do with you. I proposed the idea, not you, since you admitted that you are totally new to facebook group things. I created the group, not you. I found the group, not you. I put the group name, and you just slightly changed it. Please don' t claim that I hijacked the group. It is you to continue wanting to use the group to publishize your agenda, even after we parted. It seems that you dare not to accept the challange to apologize to me if your plan fails. You are not that confident at your plan, and well, then be honest with that and please don' t pretend that you are very confident. You yourself told me that you " just want to try your luck" and to be frank with you, this is the very sentence that drives me from parting from your effort!
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 15:24        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Sabana Reit IPO Prospectus was written by a group of experts. When the experts write " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" , NO ONE will believe that it means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement. Obviously,   it means MAS is asking the Trustee to change the Manager.          Similarly, when they write " vote to remove the Manager" it means to change the Manager.  kohyeekan      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 15:16) Posted: Dear Mr. Low, I didn' t want to quarrel with you but since you put pointless accusations, I need to clarify.  1) I called you once only after we stopped working together. That is a coutesy call after I talked to MAS, to tell you that MAS clarified that a) the Manager ceases to exist right after the resolutions are passed, b) the risk of banks recalling the loan is real, and c) the MAS sees this as different opinions on how to manage the REIT and does not see any potentila frauds. You refused to listen and only want to push forward your agenda and even twisted my post in your facebook to false claim that MAS supports your plan. 2) The creation of the facebook group is TOTALLY my idea and there is nothing to do with you. I proposed the idea, not you, since you admitted that you are totally new to facebook group things. I created the group, not you. I found the group, not you. I put the group name, and you just slightly changed it. Please don' t claim that I hijacked the group. It is you to continue wanting to use the group to publishize your agenda, even after we parted. It seems that you dare not to accept the challange to apologize to me if your plan fails. You are not that confident at your plan, and well, then be honest with that and please don' t pretend that you are very confident. You yourself told me that you " just want to try your luck" and to be frank with you, this is the very sentence that drives me from parting from your effort! ACTIVIST_SPEAKS      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 14:58) Posted: --- Post Removed by User ---
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kohyeekan Member	18-Feb-2017 15:16        kohyeekan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Dear Mr. Low, I didn' t want to quarrel with you but since you put pointless accusations, I need to clarify.  1) I called you once only after we stopped working together. That is a coutesy call after I talked to MAS, to tell you that MAS clarified that a) the Manager ceases to exist right after the resolutions are passed, b) the risk of banks recalling the loan is real, and c) the MAS sees this as different opinions on how to manage the REIT and does not see any potentila frauds. You refused to listen and only want to push forward your agenda and even twisted my post in your facebook to false claim that MAS supports your plan. 2) The creation of the facebook group is TOTALLY my idea and there is nothing to do with you. I proposed the idea, not you, since you admitted that you are totally new to facebook group things. I created the group, not you. I found the group, not you. I put the group name, and you just slightly changed it. Please don' t claim that I hijacked the group. It is you to continue wanting to use the group to publishize your agenda, even after we parted. It seems that you dare not to accept the challange to apologize to me if your plan fails. You are not that confident at your plan, and well, then be honest with that and please don' t pretend that you are very confident. You yourself told me that you " just want to try your luck" and to be frank with you, this is the very sentence that drives me from parting from your effort! ACTIVIST_SPEAKS      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 14:58) Posted: --- Post Removed by User ---
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Fangqq Member	18-Feb-2017 14:50        Fangqq About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Sabana Reit IPO Prospectus was written by a group of experts. When the experts write " MAS directs the Trustee to remove the Manager" , NO one will believe that it means MAS is asking the Trustee to remove the Manager immediately without a replacement. Obviously,   it means MAS is asking the Trustee to replace the Manager.           Similarly, when they write " vote to remove the Manager " it means to replace the Manager.
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kohyeekan Member	18-Feb-2017 14:42        kohyeekan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Totally agree! Anyway, one more point, the Trustee probably don' t have the expertise to look for a new management team. This requires specialized knowledge and expertise. Anyway, if you want to support my version of resolutions, please email me at [email protected]. W32012      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 14:27) Posted: Been reading the back and forth between Mr Koh and Mr Low (including ther supportors) for a few days. General impression is that Mr Koh has given more thought to the issue and are more grounded (less assumptions) compared to Mr Low. Mr Low has make a lot of bold assumptions on MAS' s intention. I am not sure if that is wise or appropriate. There has been no instance of government backing up minority shareholder or interfering in corporate businesses, unless shareholder demostrate fraudulent action perpetuated by the management. In such instance, there is not even need for the resolution to dispose off the manager as the penal code will take care of the manager. Singapore has always been pro-business and in cases of ambiguity with law, I believe the law will be read to the advantage of businesses, not minority shareholder. It will be a stretch to think MAS will step in to direct trustee to help minority shareholder look for a new manager. There is no structure within the trustee provided under the law to vet and approve the new manager. Just look at CLOB, what have MAS or the foreign affair ministry done to help the minority shareholder then, even though CLOB is a legal entity then. I guess the minority interest of CLOB have been sacrificed for the greater good of better bilateral relationship. It is cruel world out there, the government will not always be there to watch your back. Unitholder beware.
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W32012 Member	18-Feb-2017 14:27        W32012 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Been reading the back and forth between Mr Koh and Mr Low (including ther supportors) for a few days. General impression is that Mr Koh has given more thought to the issue and are more grounded (less assumptions) compared to Mr Low. Mr Low has make a lot of bold assumptions on MAS' s intention. I am not sure if that is wise or appropriate. There has been no instance of government backing up minority shareholder or interfering in corporate businesses, unless shareholder demostrate fraudulent action perpetuated by the management. In such instance, there is not even need for the resolution to dispose off the manager as the penal code will take care of the manager. Singapore has always been pro-business and in cases of ambiguity with law, I believe the law will be read to the advantage of businesses, not minority shareholder. It will be a stretch to think MAS will step in to direct trustee to help minority shareholder look for a new manager. There is no structure within the trustee provided under the law to vet and approve the new manager. Just look at CLOB, what have MAS or the foreign affair ministry done to help the minority shareholder then, even though CLOB is a legal entity then. I guess the minority interest of CLOB have been sacrificed for the greater good of better bilateral relationship. It is cruel world out there, the government will not always be there to watch your back. Unitholder beware.
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kohyeekan Member	18-Feb-2017 14:05        kohyeekan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Dear Mr. Low, I believe that your version of resolutions cannot get enough supports from right-minded unit holders and even if they are passed, it will create chaos and harms to the unit holders. I know that you must think otherwise. How about this, I publicly apologize to you in my facebook group and in this ShareJunction forum if your resolutions are successfully passed and a new internal manager is established without any chaos. If not, you publicly apologize to me in your facebook group and in this ShareJunction forum? ACTIVIST_SPEAKS      ( Date: 18-Feb-2017 11:49) Posted: --- Post Removed by User ---
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investshare Supreme	18-Feb-2017 12:17        investshare About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 1   x 0  Alert Admin	I believe other REIT managers will queue to take up the job if existing one ousted. Cannot believe that cannot find one. Singapore wants to be REIT hub. Pretty sure things will work out.
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