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laksaman57 Supreme	19-Jul-2017 09:39        laksaman57 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Lesson can be learn from looking back at past O&G coy's offer to their bondholders and their actual outcome. namcheongbond      ( Date: 19-Jul-2017 08:13) Posted: Not sure what management can offer this evening that will change my mind.   Nevertheless, I still like to hear the explanations behind their course of action.
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namcheongbond Member	19-Jul-2017 08:13        namcheongbond About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Not sure what management can offer this evening that will change my mind.   Nevertheless, I still like to hear the explanations behind their course of action.
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johnng Supreme	18-Jul-2017 09:31        johnng About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	CHIONG ARH???
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ysh2006 Supreme	18-Jul-2017 07:57        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Just register with Sias and ask management lah...Sias give we a chance to talk !! ysh2006      ( Date: 17-Jul-2017 13:18) Posted: SIAS organising a meeting with Nam Cheong shareholders at RELC on 19 Jul  evening, go and ask management lah,go package dinner to eat too! namcheongbond      ( Date: 17-Jul-2017 07:26) Posted: Regarding questions on SIAS potential conflict of interests, it released a statement in 28 October 2016 stating that &ldquo SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament.&rdquo   Until proven otherwise, I will take its statement at face value.  The entire statement is reproduced below.       Press Statement: SIAS Provides Assistance to Bond Holders   Date: 28 October 2016 The recent developments relating to a few corporate bonds, specifically in the companies that have defaulted in bond payments or have consent solicitations in process, have resulted in many bond holders to be stranded, not knowing whom to approach for help. Some bond issuers have proposed to bond holders to restructure their debt. In this situation, many of these individual investors, who have invested in these companies in sums in excess of $250,000 are unsure of their rights and how to seek redress. In some cases, such as in Rickmers Maritime, the issuer has arranged for legal assistance and engaged noteholders through informal meetings, e-mail communication and press and SGX releases. Nevertheless, unlike equity investors, bond holders are often not able to aggregate and meet to discuss their concerns with the relevant parties. In the recent episodes, some have approached legal firms for assistance with regard to their rights. SIAS has been approached by some of the bond holders in the aforesaid situation for help. SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament. SIAS is also considering investor education issues in regards to these instruments. SIAS is commencing by helping the bond holders of Rickmers Maritime, in cooperation with the company&rsquo s senior management who will be available to answer questions, to understand their rights and the various scenarios in a dialogue session scheduled on 2 November 7pm at SGX Auditorium. All Rickmers Maritime bond holders are invited to register with SIAS at  [email protected].  David Gerald  Founder, President & CEO  Securities Investors Association (Singapore)
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kerier Veteran	17-Jul-2017 21:50        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	- fully agreed, vessels of better value now than 3 years later assuming marketing conditions remain unchanged.  - if the controlling family deems that NC has a good chance to return to profitability in the near future, it should inject capital to show its committment. otherwise it means that the owners have lost faith in the company' s future.  namcheongbond      ( Date: 17-Jul-2017 07:22) Posted: If Nam Cheong is a viable and valuable company, there is no doubt in my mind the controlling family (and also majority shareholder) must eventually de-leverage the company by injecting fresh equity.  This means the informal bondholders meeting in 2 days time is simply a way for the controlling family to determine how good a deal they can extract from the bondholders before deciding how much of their own capital to inject later on to satisfy the bankers.  Remember, the controlling family is not poor, it has enough financial resources from which they can draw on to re-capitalise the company if they want to.   If Nam Cheong has no value to the controlling family, then it will simply do nothing and default on the bonds. But bondholders must seek IMMEDIATE application for judicial management of the company to preserve maximum recovery from the sale of assets.  Short of a long, major conflict in the Middle East that sends oil price way past US$60 per barrel, the OSV market will not be better in 3 years time than it is today.  Extending the bonds for another 3 years will only REDUCE future recovery for bondholders through assets deterioration, additional working capital needs, and future operating/administrative expenses.    Therefore, I agree with the previous post in that seeking immediate judicial management is the best course of action for bondholders if Nam Cheong does not redeem the bond in full on 28 August 2017.  If need be, and as painful as it is, we have to take the same course of action taken by the Rickmers bondholders because our recovery will definitely be higher today than it will be 3 years from now.  Failure to act now means we will lose more down the road.   Using the latest balance sheet numbers and haircut numbers ranging from 75% for vessels to 0% for cash, I calculated estimated recovery for unsecured creditors (mainly bondholders and trade creditors) at between 20-30%.  This may not be much, but still much better than what I think Swiber or Swissco unsecured creditors can hope to recover, and makes the very best out of a bad situation.
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ysh2006 Supreme	17-Jul-2017 13:18        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	SIAS organising a meeting with Nam Cheong shareholders at RELC on 19 Jul  evening, go and ask management lah,go package dinner to eat too! namcheongbond      ( Date: 17-Jul-2017 07:26) Posted: Regarding questions on SIAS potential conflict of interests, it released a statement in 28 October 2016 stating that &ldquo SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament.&rdquo   Until proven otherwise, I will take its statement at face value.  The entire statement is reproduced below.       Press Statement: SIAS Provides Assistance to Bond Holders   Date: 28 October 2016 The recent developments relating to a few corporate bonds, specifically in the companies that have defaulted in bond payments or have consent solicitations in process, have resulted in many bond holders to be stranded, not knowing whom to approach for help. Some bond issuers have proposed to bond holders to restructure their debt. In this situation, many of these individual investors, who have invested in these companies in sums in excess of $250,000 are unsure of their rights and how to seek redress. In some cases, such as in Rickmers Maritime, the issuer has arranged for legal assistance and engaged noteholders through informal meetings, e-mail communication and press and SGX releases. Nevertheless, unlike equity investors, bond holders are often not able to aggregate and meet to discuss their concerns with the relevant parties. In the recent episodes, some have approached legal firms for assistance with regard to their rights. SIAS has been approached by some of the bond holders in the aforesaid situation for help. SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament. SIAS is also considering investor education issues in regards to these instruments. SIAS is commencing by helping the bond holders of Rickmers Maritime, in cooperation with the company&rsquo s senior management who will be available to answer questions, to understand their rights and the various scenarios in a dialogue session scheduled on 2 November 7pm at SGX Auditorium. All Rickmers Maritime bond holders are invited to register with SIAS at  [email protected].  David Gerald  Founder, President & CEO  Securities Investors Association (Singapore)
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laksaman57 Supreme	17-Jul-2017 09:09        laksaman57 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	You are indeed lucky, you not caught in Sabana reit saga and experienced SIAS's "will be", "would be"... namcheongbond      ( Date: 17-Jul-2017 07:26) Posted: Regarding questions on SIAS potential conflict of interests, it released a statement in 28 October 2016 stating that &ldquo SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament.&rdquo   Until proven otherwise, I will take its statement at face value.  The entire statement is reproduced below.       Press Statement: SIAS Provides Assistance to Bond Holders   Date: 28 October 2016 The recent developments relating to a few corporate bonds, specifically in the companies that have defaulted in bond payments or have consent solicitations in process, have resulted in many bond holders to be stranded, not knowing whom to approach for help. Some bond issuers have proposed to bond holders to restructure their debt. In this situation, many of these individual investors, who have invested in these companies in sums in excess of $250,000 are unsure of their rights and how to seek redress. In some cases, such as in Rickmers Maritime, the issuer has arranged for legal assistance and engaged noteholders through informal meetings, e-mail communication and press and SGX releases. Nevertheless, unlike equity investors, bond holders are often not able to aggregate and meet to discuss their concerns with the relevant parties. In the recent episodes, some have approached legal firms for assistance with regard to their rights. SIAS has been approached by some of the bond holders in the aforesaid situation for help. SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament. SIAS is also considering investor education issues in regards to these instruments. SIAS is commencing by helping the bond holders of Rickmers Maritime, in cooperation with the company&rsquo s senior management who will be available to answer questions, to understand their rights and the various scenarios in a dialogue session scheduled on 2 November 7pm at SGX Auditorium. All Rickmers Maritime bond holders are invited to register with SIAS at  [email protected].  David Gerald  Founder, President & CEO  Securities Investors Association (Singapore)
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namcheongbond Member	17-Jul-2017 07:26        namcheongbond About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Regarding questions on SIAS potential conflict of interests, it released a statement in 28 October 2016 stating that &ldquo SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament.&rdquo   Until proven otherwise, I will take its statement at face value.  The entire statement is reproduced below.       Press Statement: SIAS Provides Assistance to Bond Holders   Date: 28 October 2016 The recent developments relating to a few corporate bonds, specifically in the companies that have defaulted in bond payments or have consent solicitations in process, have resulted in many bond holders to be stranded, not knowing whom to approach for help. Some bond issuers have proposed to bond holders to restructure their debt. In this situation, many of these individual investors, who have invested in these companies in sums in excess of $250,000 are unsure of their rights and how to seek redress. In some cases, such as in Rickmers Maritime, the issuer has arranged for legal assistance and engaged noteholders through informal meetings, e-mail communication and press and SGX releases. Nevertheless, unlike equity investors, bond holders are often not able to aggregate and meet to discuss their concerns with the relevant parties. In the recent episodes, some have approached legal firms for assistance with regard to their rights. SIAS has been approached by some of the bond holders in the aforesaid situation for help. SIAS will be prepared to address these bond holders' concerns and would be able to collectively represent the bond holders and also advise them of their rights in such a predicament. SIAS is also considering investor education issues in regards to these instruments. SIAS is commencing by helping the bond holders of Rickmers Maritime, in cooperation with the company&rsquo s senior management who will be available to answer questions, to understand their rights and the various scenarios in a dialogue session scheduled on 2 November 7pm at SGX Auditorium. All Rickmers Maritime bond holders are invited to register with SIAS at  [email protected].  David Gerald  Founder, President & CEO  Securities Investors Association (Singapore)
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namcheongbond Member	17-Jul-2017 07:22        namcheongbond About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If Nam Cheong is a viable and valuable company, there is no doubt in my mind the controlling family (and also majority shareholder) must eventually de-leverage the company by injecting fresh equity.  This means the informal bondholders meeting in 2 days time is simply a way for the controlling family to determine how good a deal they can extract from the bondholders before deciding how much of their own capital to inject later on to satisfy the bankers.  Remember, the controlling family is not poor, it has enough financial resources from which they can draw on to re-capitalise the company if they want to.   If Nam Cheong has no value to the controlling family, then it will simply do nothing and default on the bonds. But bondholders must seek IMMEDIATE application for judicial management of the company to preserve maximum recovery from the sale of assets.  Short of a long, major conflict in the Middle East that sends oil price way past US$60 per barrel, the OSV market will not be better in 3 years time than it is today.  Extending the bonds for another 3 years will only REDUCE future recovery for bondholders through assets deterioration, additional working capital needs, and future operating/administrative expenses.    Therefore, I agree with the previous post in that seeking immediate judicial management is the best course of action for bondholders if Nam Cheong does not redeem the bond in full on 28 August 2017.  If need be, and as painful as it is, we have to take the same course of action taken by the Rickmers bondholders because our recovery will definitely be higher today than it will be 3 years from now.  Failure to act now means we will lose more down the road.   Using the latest balance sheet numbers and haircut numbers ranging from 75% for vessels to 0% for cash, I calculated estimated recovery for unsecured creditors (mainly bondholders and trade creditors) at between 20-30%.  This may not be much, but still much better than what I think Swiber or Swissco unsecured creditors can hope to recover, and makes the very best out of a bad situation.
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ysh2006 Supreme	16-Jul-2017 18:25        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Don't agree fight bite the bullets make NC to redeem bonds...if not after three years mkt won't recover NC no money already!! do it now!! ..don't wait!! sheerluck      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 17:28) Posted: If this group of bond holder agrees to the extension, they might as well write off this investment straight away. Doing so mean you throw yourself to the end of the group to redeem the MTN bond with the other three bonds then maturing before you. Any of the three decided not to agree you get nothing back. For this to be fair, the other three bondholders must also agree to extend their maturity date to be later than you. But the main risk is always with their main financiers. Say NC now got rm300mil. If you don't agree, NC might need forced to pay up then there is rm300mil less for the bank to claim which the bank wouldn't like. So the bank issue likely to use this as their chip against bondholders. Don't agree, they recall all their loan. NC close shop you get nothing back. Other opting might be asking NC to do a partial redemption. Get say 50% back first better than nothing. Problem is the company always come out with their terms probably in consultation with their main financiers. So bond holder should really fight to be involved in the negotiations of the term. Ofc, NC will resist such request becos then they cannot give their main financiers all the safety net they demanded. I think someone should form a group to have a strong voice to fight for their best benefits. SIAS? I am not so sure really. My 2 cts. .. namcheongbond      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 11:30) Posted: To avoid bondholders getting divided and conqured, I would publicly appeal to SIAS to help organise bondholders into informal bondholders' committees.   SIAS role is absolutely critical because given the lack of institutional ownership in the bonds, the chances of individual bondholders organising ourselves is zero.
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sheerluck Supreme	16-Jul-2017 17:28        sheerluck About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood: Yells: "Work for your money first then let your money work for you"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If this group of bond holder agrees to the extension, they might as well write off this investment straight away. Doing so mean you throw yourself to the end of the group to redeem the MTN bond with the other three bonds then maturing before you. Any of the three decided not to agree you get nothing back. For this to be fair, the other three bondholders must also agree to extend their maturity date to be later than you. But the main risk is always with their main financiers. Say NC now got rm300mil. If you don't agree, NC might need forced to pay up then there is rm300mil less for the bank to claim which the bank wouldn't like. So the bank issue likely to use this as their chip against bondholders. Don't agree, they recall all their loan. NC close shop you get nothing back. Other opting might be asking NC to do a partial redemption. Get say 50% back first better than nothing. Problem is the company always come out with their terms probably in consultation with their main financiers. So bond holder should really fight to be involved in the negotiations of the term. Ofc, NC will resist such request becos then they cannot give their main financiers all the safety net they demanded. I think someone should form a group to have a strong voice to fight for their best benefits. SIAS? I am not so sure really. My 2 cts. .. namcheongbond      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 11:30) Posted: To avoid bondholders getting divided and conqured, I would publicly appeal to SIAS to help organise bondholders into informal bondholders' committees.   SIAS role is absolutely critical because given the lack of institutional ownership in the bonds, the chances of individual bondholders organising ourselves is zero.
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sheerluck Supreme	16-Jul-2017 14:11        sheerluck About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood: Yells: "Work for your money first then let your money work for you"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I thought in the end, SIAS sided with Sabana REIT manager.   Can rely on SIAS? namcheongbond      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 11:30) Posted: To avoid bondholders getting divided and conqured, I would publicly appeal to SIAS to help organise bondholders into informal bondholders' committees.   SIAS role is absolutely critical because given the lack of institutional ownership in the bonds, the chances of individual bondholders organising ourselves is zero.
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ysh2006 Supreme	16-Jul-2017 13:21        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Namcheong want bond holders to extend for another 3 yr no interest payout . They think can follow RM that pressure us to give in ? namcheongbond      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 11:30) Posted: To avoid bondholders getting divided and conqured, I would publicly appeal to SIAS to help organise bondholders into informal bondholders' committees.   SIAS role is absolutely critical because given the lack of institutional ownership in the bonds, the chances of individual bondholders organising ourselves is zero.
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laksaman57 Supreme	16-Jul-2017 12:41        laksaman57 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I believe for the amount that bond holder invested, even a fee is nothing. ysh2006      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 12:03) Posted: Fully agreed keep it up Sias might charge a fee to organise this meeting. namcheongbond      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 11:30) Posted: To avoid bondholders getting divided and conqured, I would publicly appeal to SIAS to help organise bondholders into informal bondholders' committees.   SIAS role is absolutely critical because given the lack of institutional ownership in the bonds, the chances of individual bondholders organising ourselves is zero.
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ysh2006 Supreme	16-Jul-2017 12:03        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Fully agreed keep it up Sias might charge a fee to organise this meeting. namcheongbond      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 11:30) Posted: To avoid bondholders getting divided and conqured, I would publicly appeal to SIAS to help organise bondholders into informal bondholders' committees.   SIAS role is absolutely critical because given the lack of institutional ownership in the bonds, the chances of individual bondholders organising ourselves is zero.
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namcheongbond Member	16-Jul-2017 11:30        namcheongbond About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	To avoid bondholders getting divided and conqured, I would publicly appeal to SIAS to help organise bondholders into informal bondholders' committees.   SIAS role is absolutely critical because given the lack of institutional ownership in the bonds, the chances of individual bondholders organising ourselves is zero.
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ysh2006 Supreme	16-Jul-2017 11:23        ysh2006 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Yes who want to be the chief lah ? United we can fight... Nam Cheong should have pool of lawyers to defence!! laksaman57      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 09:01) Posted: It well be good if bond holders learn from sabana reit activism and meet to consolidate a single voice rather than get divided&conquered.
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laksaman57 Supreme	16-Jul-2017 09:01        laksaman57 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	It well be good if bond holders learn from sabana reit activism and meet to consolidate a single voice rather than get divided&conquered.
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laksaman57 Supreme	16-Jul-2017 08:56        laksaman57 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	How would financial advisors who sell bond to buyers advise their rich client ? Well there be conflict of interest ? Maybe it's wiser for bond holders to seek independent advisors.
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kerier Veteran	16-Jul-2017 07:25        kerier About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If bankrupt, then the court will appoint a receiver to liquidate assets. ysh2006      ( Date: 16-Jul-2017 07:20) Posted: Namber Cheong boss no money to pay bond holders who can take their boats/ships to sell ? kerier      ( Date: 15-Jul-2017 23:41) Posted: The best the banks can do is to restructure the debt for Nam Cheong, I' m pretty sure they would not extend a cent more and take collateral on the vessels.
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